Nuts For Arminians To Crack

[Yeshua1]

So they were reconciled to God before they came to Jesus? I think it is the death of Jesus atones the sinners who come to Jesus, who of course were first drawn by the Father.

The blood of Jesus was shed to reconcile them back to the father, so from His point of view was accomplished, but fromour perspective, we still must have received jesus thru faith as our Savior!
God election of us who are saved was based upon his will period, and the shed of Jesus accomplished us being able to be reconciled back...

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not even think that all Calvinists interpret the word hate in the Romans 9 the way Tyndall 1946 interprets it.

To say that Edom was hated with an everlasting and unconditional hatred is almost like saying Edom was evil because God hated them and desired to punish them. I do not think that is what Malachi or Paul had in mind. And I bet many Calvinists would object to that notion as well

See, the way it is being explained is...

I could say God passes over some, but the reason is not because of some everlasting, unconditional hate. And the just condemnation of sinners is not due to a everlasting, unconditional hate either.

God punished them with a righteous judgement their sins deserved, not God hated them and because of His hate tore them down
This is why I believe in predestination, but not double predestination. A Man is saved by grace. Another Man perishes because of HIS OWN DOING.

Does God hate Satan?

 

[Yeshua1]

Sin is UN-NATURAL.

Its a cowardly excuse and a insult to God. Everyone is commanded not to sin.

There is absolutely no Spiritual or Physical mechanic that is the cause for your sinning, It is solely your fault.

1 Corinthians 10

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

To the lost, sinning is the most natural thing to do, as we were all bent that way!

 

[utilyan]

To the lost, sinning is the most natural thing to do, as we were all bent that way!

You have no scripture backing this up. You want to blame God for things that are your fault.

 

[glad4mercy]

The blood of Jesus was shed to reconcile them back to the father, so from His point of view was accomplished, but fromour perspective, we still must have received jesus thru faith as our Savior!
God election of us who are saved was based upon his will period, and the shed of Jesus accomplished us being able to be reconciled back...

Good answer. I believe everything you just said. But I also believe that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, and the basis of reprobation is not that God hated them ( I mean hatred defined as we normally define it in English, not the biblical sense of hate) before they were born.

I think it is dangerous to believe that God hates the reprobate with an unconditional, everlasting before they were born hatred. Yet that is what some here are arguing for.

God does not punish sinners because that's the purpose of their creation. Damnation is not based on apriori, before they were born hatred. Damnation is based on the justice of God, NOT HATRED.

Would you agree that God elects according to His own good pleasure but that election is NOT arbitrary, but that it's basis is in something that is known to God, but not fully revealed to us? Let me know

 

[glad4mercy]

Does God hate Satan?

What does the Bible say? I don't know a passage that answers that question, can you help me out?

 

[glad4mercy]

God is the only being with a full free will, and we ares till fully accountable for our actions and chooses!

A better way to say it would be that only God has ABSOLUTE FREEDOM. Our will is intact, but it does things by permission, God needs no permission to do anything. He alone is Autonomous

 

[glad4mercy]

You have no scripture backing this up. You want to blame God for things that are your fault.

Romans 5:6- "when we were without strength, powerless

Romans 7:14- ...unspiritual, sold as a slave under sin

Romans 7:18- Good does not dwell in my flesh

Ephesians 2:3- By nature, children of wrath.

Romans 8:7-8- Fleshly mind cannot submit to the Law of God.

Like I said in the previous post, these are not excuses, because God has given sinners in bondage a way to be free from sin and death. But they CANNOT be free from the bondage of sin until they are CRUCIFIED with Jesus and raised up to walk IN NEWNESS of LIFE.

Earlier, I asked you about Romans 7:20-24. Did you not see the post?

There is a law of sin and death that can only be overcome by the Law of Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. And unbelievers do not have the Law of Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus operating in them. And a person cannot be free until they are set free by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:2)

 

[Yeshua1]

You have no scripture backing this up. You want to blame God for things that are your fault.

Jesus stated that all of us were under kingdom of satan, under rule of sin, do you believe Him?

 

[Yeshua1]

Good answer. I believe everything you just said. But I also believe that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, and the basis of reprobation is not that God hated them ( I mean hatred defined as we normally define it in English, not the biblical sense of hate) before they were born.

I think it is dangerous to believe that God hates the reprobate with an unconditional, everlasting before they were born hatred. Yet that is what some here are arguing for.

God does not punish sinners because that's the purpose of their creation. Damnation is not based on apriori, before they were born hatred. Damnation is based on the justice of God, NOT HATRED.

Would you agree that God elects according to His own good pleasure but that election is NOT arbitrary, but that it's basis is in something that is known to God, but not fully revealed to us? Let me know

I would see the election based upon the sovereign will of God, and that He chooses to whom is given salvation, not based at all upon anything we can offer or do for Him, as we are all lost sinners before saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

What does the Bible say? I don't know a passage that answers that question, can you help me out?[/QUOTE
God hates sin, and satan is the father of lies and of sin!

 

[Yeshua1]

A better way to say it would be that only God has ABSOLUTE FREEDOM. Our will is intact, but it does things by permission, God needs no permission to do anything. He alone is Autonomous

God had free freedom to do as he wills, as there is NOTHING constrain Him, but all of us that ole sin nature restraining us in the deciision making process!

 

[glad4mercy]

I would see the election based upon the sovereign will of God, and that He chooses to whom is given salvation, not based at all upon anything we can offer or do for Him, as we are all lost sinners before saved!

Ok, I agree with all that. But election is not arbitrary. It is not pulling names out of a hat. It is not based on anything good in us either. It is not based on anything we have to offer, we have nothing. It is not based on merit. Christ is our only merit. It is not based on the fact that we are better, wiser, or any other thing...

But it is not arbitrary. There is a reason God chooses whom He chooses. And He is no respecter of any person.

I would say God chooses based on foreknowledge, and He chooses in such a way where no man can boast, but where God gets all the glory. He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. And known unto God are all His Works from the foundation of the earth.

 

[glad4mercy]

God had free freedom to do as he wills, as there is NOTHING constrain Him, but all of us that ole sin nature restraining us in the deciision making process!

But if we are in the Spirit, the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets us free from the dominion of sin in the flesh, so that we are no longer under its reign

 

[glad4mercy]

Jesus stated that all of us were under kingdom of satan, under rule of sin, do you believe Him?

Correction. All unsaved people lie under the dominion of sin and are taken captive of the devil. Not Christians who are in the Spirit and walk in Him and not after the flesh. The devil, sin, and the flesh have NO authority or dominion over the child of God. Because we died to all of that. Reckon it to be so, because it is so...

 

[utilyan]

Jesus stated that all of us were under kingdom of satan, under rule of sin, do you believe Him?

Jesus says he is the the highest authority, earth belongs to God and God has never capitulated any of it to Satan.

Matthew 28

18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

 

[glad4mercy]

Jesus says he is the the highest authority, earth belongs to God and God has never capitulated any of it to Satan.

Matthew 28

18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

The fact that God has never capitulated anything to satan does not negate the fact that unsaved people are held captive under the dominion of evil. The fact that some people are under His power does not mean God capitulated ANYTHING. In fact, satan can't do ANYTHING without God's permission. But mankind in the fall made itself CAPTIVE to satan and fall under his power, and can only be rescued by the REDEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians2:And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked,following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in nthe sons of disobedience—


Acts 26:18- “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

2 Timothy 2:26- Then they may come to their senses and escape the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Colossians 1:13- He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son he loves.

1 John 5:19- We know that we are of God, and the whole world is under the sway of the evil one.

 

[atpollard]

It is ironic that God actually has no 'Free Will' as most people would define free will. Most who argue that humans have 'free will' mean that people have the ability to choose to do good or evil; to obey God or disobey God. Yet to choose to disobey the character of God is to SIN. Does anyone really believe that God has the 'freedom' to act contrary to his Holy nature and SIN? Clearly not. So God has NO 'free will' to choose Holiness or Sin (as many would define 'Free Will').

I am convinced that this points to a flaw in our human perspective. The Bible describes the natural man as a 'slave to sin', and I am convinced that this is so. If we accept God as the definition of 'Free Will', then Free Will is not the freedom to choose between Holiness and Sin, but rather Free Will is the Freedom from choosing Sin. Jesus lived the ultimate 'Free Will' ... a life of human temptation, but incapable of choosing sin.

So I accept that we are born in bondage to sin. Drawn to Christ by the Father to empower us to change. Granted true 'Free Will' ... a new spirit and nature that is a bond-servant to righteousness and a Child of God (Philippians 2:13).

 

[glad4mercy]

It is ironic that God actually has no 'Free Will' as most people would define free will. Most who argue that humans have 'free will' mean that people have the ability to choose to do good or evil; to obey God or disobey God. Yet to choose to disobey the character of God is to SIN. Does anyone really believe that God has the 'freedom' to act contrary to his Holy nature and SIN? Clearly not. So God has NO 'free will' to choose Holiness or Sin (as many would define 'Free Will').

I am convinced that this points to a flaw in our human perspective. The Bible describes the natural man as a 'slave to sin', and I am convinced that this is so. If we accept God as the definition of 'Free Will', then Free Will is not the freedom to choose between Holiness and Sin, but rather Free Will is the Freedom from choosing Sin. Jesus lived the ultimate 'Free Will' ... a life of human temptation, but incapable of choosing sin.

So I accept that we are born in bondage to sin. Drawn to Christ by the Father to empower us to change. Granted true 'Free Will' ... a new spirit and nature that is a bond-servant to righteousness and a Child of God (Philippians 2:13).

I agree with most of what you said, except I would say that neither absolute holiness nor slavery to sin Negates free will. Free will is the ability to make choices, and we make choices based on our nature. The Will of God is free but uncorrupted. Man's will is also free, but His mind and will are corrupted, until redeemed.

 

[atpollard]

I agree with most of what you said, except I would say that neither absolute holiness nor slavery to sin Negates free will. Free will is the ability to make choices, and we make choices based on our nature. The Will of God is free but uncorrupted. Man's will is also free, but His mind and will are corrupted, until redeemed.

This reminds me of a quote by Henry Ford. "You can buy a Model T in any color you want ... as long as it is black."

The unregenerated man is free to choose God or Sin ... as long as he obeys the slavery to his corrupted nature and chooses sin. (Ephesians 2:1-3)