Israel?

Do you think today’s State of Israel is Biblical Israel? If so, why?

I believe circumcision made Abraham’s 300+ soldiers and their families his covenant seed. None of whom descended from him. Ishmael was his only blood relative then. And when Abraham excommunicated Ishmael and Hagar, only the covenant seed remained.

Later, any born of Isaac who remained uncircumcised remained cut off from Israel until circumcised. So circumcision and solidarity with the community made one a physical member of Israel.

When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he removed the rite that made one a physical member of Israel. Only those united to Christ by faith like Abraham remained. God broke off the unbelievers replacing them with believing gentiles.

Therefore, who is Biblical Israel? Those believers who accepted Jesus as King, or those unbelievers who rejected him?

Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.

 

Thanks Rob. In my studies circumcision made on a physical member of Israel. When Jesus abolished circumcision, he phased physical Israel out completely leaving only spiritual Israel, Paul, Peter, John and other believers etc. All under Christ. If what I believe is true, the State of Israel is not biblical Israel and only another State like Russia or Palestine, France etc.

 

This is correct. Circumcision made one a physical member of Israel, not blood. Because Isaac's blood relatives were cut of from Israel, made gentiles, unless circumcised Genesis 17:14. Normally on their 8th day. Many gentiles became Jews also through circumcision Esther 8:17. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross Colossians 2:14, nothing remained to make one a Physical member of Israel. Israel continued under Jesus with those circumcised in heart, that is believers like Abraham. God broke off the unbelievers and replaced them with believing gentiles (per Romans 11).Today's physical Israel are gentiles who practice jewish customs and rituals, calling themselves Israel.

 

God removed unbelievers from Israel in Romans 11, and grafted believing gentiles into their place. Only those who accepted Jesus remained Israel.

 

I'll bet I'm more conservative than you. God removed unbelievers from Israel in Romans 11, and replaced the with believing gentiles. Only those who accepted Jesus remained Israel.

 

Remember Paul says; “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.” (Romans 9:6–9) (KJV 1900)

And: “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29) (KJV 1900)

And: “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16) (KJV 1900)

 

The promise to Abraham and his seed Christ, and us who believe in Christ is unconditional and eternal. The promise also applied to his physical unbelieving seed who were always wicked. BUT it was conditional, earthly, temporal and forfeited many, many times over because of their wickedness.

Abraham and the faithfull among Israel needed no law. You did not need to tell them not to steal. But the wicked needed law to control them.

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:9–10) (KJV 1900)

So the temporal earthly promises were conditional and applied only to these. But to Abraham and the Faithful the promises were unconditional and eternal.

 

It's easy to understand if you study the subject.

Who is Abraham's seed according to the NT?

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16) (KJV 1900)

Why did God give the OT Law to Israel?

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.” (1 Timothy 1:9–11) (KJV 1900)

Why did God remove the Old Covenant (Physical Israel) replacing it with the New Covenant?

““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord.“But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (NET)

“When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.” (Hebrews 8:13) (NET)

 

This is true. But they are not biblical Israel...you are if you follow Christ. The State of Israel is merely another warring nation in a land grab we should not support.