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Conversion after death

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Matt Janes, Apr 26, 2018.

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  1. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    Buddha never heard about Jesus. He left his palace to live in poverty, meditation, fasting, self-discipline, and seeking knowledge, understanding and truth. He sat beneath the Bodhi Tree defiantly determined to receive understanding and vowed that he would let his flesh and bones waste away and welcome that and death but not leave that spot until he found enlightenment. He did the best with what he had.

    Buddha preached non-violence, gentleness, charity, self-discipline, detachment from possessions, detachment from materialism, and worldliness, humility, meekness and many of the virtues that Jesus preached. But he didn't accept Christ because he had never heard of the man, and wasn't a Jew, so didn't know about the God of Abraham. You seriously think he went to Hell??

    Jesus said

    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.

    Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.

    Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall have their fill.

    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.

    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.


    Buddha was poor in spirit, meek, he hungered and thirsted for righteousness, he was merciful, clean of heart, and a peacemaker. You seriously think he went to hell? What kind of Justice is that? So, if he didn't go to hell, that leaves only one option. He converted after death.

    Sister Faustina Kowalska claims she was told by Jesus that at the moment when a spirit leaves the body, there is a final illumination and spiritual awakening and the soul is given understanding and then the free option to accept or reject Christ. She said there are people who die seemingly unrepentant and non-Christian, and to the naked eye it seems all is lost, but unknownst to us, the soul goes through a final illumination, complete enlightenment, and accepts Jesus as Lord and savior.

    I am 100% convinced that if Buddha met Christ they would see eye to eye. Buddha preached a lot of what Christ preached with a different choice of words and extolled many of the same virtues. I have no doubt that Buddha is in Heaven, which only leaves one option, he had a full conversion after death. If those who never heard of Christ can have a conversion after death, what makes you think others can't??

    To say there is no possibility of conversion after death, is to say that all those who never heard of Jesus Christ or the God of Abraham went to hell, doesn't that sound Preposterous to you??
     
    #1 Matt Janes, Apr 26, 2018
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    In the New Covenant, All who never heard of Jesus Christ go to Hell when they die. They stay there until they are cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

    Jesus also said "No man comes to The Father but by Me."
     
    #2 Reynolds, Apr 26, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  3. I Love An Atheist

    I Love An Atheist Active Member

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    I used to think this way about Buddha and other great world teachers. Then I learned that Theosophy teaches that Jesus Christ was not the Christ, but only a Christ, just one of a series of World Teachers. Theosophy is openly Luciferian.

    This is where New Age Christianity (New Age thought dressed up in Christianized language) has gone. Oprah has evangelized quite a bit for this type of New Age Christianity. Many of the Mainline Protestant churches have become quite liberal and accepting of this kind of thinking, although they are diverse.

    The New Age gives people a flashlight compared to the sun, and they are dazzled by it, and they think it's the light of God. But the real light of God is too powerful for us in this life. Nobody in the Old Testament could withstand its power. When people get a little bit of a counterfeit light in this life, they may be misled by it like a will o' the wisp in a swamp. We will be able to be in the presence of God in the next life.

    I don't know if this is the true explanation or not. But when I asked somebody, I was told that the church is spiritual and that it can include people who are in every Christian denomination as well as people who are in other spiritual traditions, including Buddhism. But everybody at some point has to accept Jesus Christ as savior, or eventually, their path leads to the devil instead of to God. The person who explained this to me smiled and said it may sound strange to me, but he believed it. Of course I can't say that he was speaking for God or that I am.

    There are accounts of people encountering Jesus Christ in near death experiences, but I can't claim that God offers everybody this opportunity. This is getting speculative and outside of Scripture.

    The Catholic church has a teaching about Purgatory, and there is a little bit of support in Scripture, but most of the doctrine is extra-Biblical and just a human tradition in the church.
     
    #3 I Love An Atheist, Apr 26, 2018
  4. GISMYS18

    GISMYS18 New Member

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    God says our righteousness is as filthy rags. No one can buy,or work or be good enough to get into heaven. Jesus says,"no one comes to the Father buy bye me!
     
    #4 GISMYS18, Apr 26, 2018
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  5. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    So, maybe Buddha and others came to the father by Jesus after death?
     
    #5 Matt Janes, Apr 26, 2018
  6. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    Those who never heard of Christ have a guarantee of eternal misery and torture? What you are promoting is so depressing and disgusting, I don't even know where to begin.
     
    #6 Matt Janes, Apr 27, 2018
  7. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    You should begin at Genesis 1:1, and just keep reading.
    ;)
     
    #7 Rob_BW, Apr 27, 2018
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  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Ever read about the rich man and Lazarus?
     
    #8 Reynolds, Apr 27, 2018
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    If you think orthodox Christianity is "disgusting", why are you here? Trolling?
     
    #9 Reynolds, Apr 27, 2018
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I understand your position. It is difficult to conceive of a God who would condemn men and women who have lived extraordinary lives of grace and mercy (by human standards).

    The issue, however, is not one of works (by human standards) and about how much one cares for his or her fellow men. The issue is about obedience to God and not to our sense of right or wrong. It’s a matter of the heart.

    The problem is not that these people have not heard of Christ, but that they have rejected Him in what has been made known to them. When we deal with Buddhism, we also need to keep in mind that Buddha created a humanistic philosophy that lends itself to other religions. Buddhism itself rejects the idea of a personal God.

    So what you are suggesting is that a person who denies God, who has denied what has been known of God’s provision and His nature of redemption, should be saved because he has shown compassion to his fellow men (even as he has led others astray, has placed his faith in humanism rather than God, and has taught others to deny God). It goes back to obedience and who is being glorified. Buddhism glorifies men, not God. The goal is to reach nirvana by following the philosophical teachings and practices of Siddhartha Gautama. On the surface it appears to foster love and caring. But in reality it is demonic, usurping God’s glory with man’s.

    To answer your question - no, there is no conversion after death. Both repentance and belief is impossible (as they are associated with turning from the things of this world, the flesh, and towards God and being made anew in this life).
     
    #10 JonC, Apr 27, 2018
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  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think we need to allow for infants or imbeciles who die never hearing the gospel.

    Paragraph 3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit;10 who works when, and where, and how He pleases;11 so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
    10 John 3:3, 5, 6
    11 John 3:8

    THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH OF 1689
     
    #11 1689Dave, Apr 27, 2018
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  12. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23
    "there is none righteous no not one" Romans 3:10

    You can extol and claim Buddha was pure and righteous and all those things, but the bible says he is a sinner, and as quoted above that all his righteousness is as filthy rags. Buddha was a sinner, and the "wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23, JUSTICE means every sinner should go to hell because God is holy and righteous.

    There is zero evidence in the word of God that salvation can be received after death. in fact Luke 16 refutes this idea.

    I agree with one of the above posters that you should start reading at Genesis 1:1 and continue reading, God's word is his revelation of truth to us, you need to conform your ideas about God to God's word, and not conform God to your ideas.
     
    #12 Jordan Kurecki, Apr 27, 2018
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  13. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    Scripture even says that the Gospel was preached to the dead and those in prison
     
    #13 Matt Janes, Apr 27, 2018
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Reference, please
     
    #14 Salty, Apr 27, 2018
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The question IMO is not will God save those who have never heard the gospel through no fault of there own but does He

    ... Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?


    of course the question begs another question - when does/did God elect the elect?
     
    #15 HankD, Apr 27, 2018
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  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Depressing and Disgusting? Yet you are so morbidly attracted to it...
     
    #16 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2018
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Matt -

    Here's all I can tell you. Here is what we do know.

    [1] It doesn't please God for people to go to hell.
    • Ezekiel 33:11 - "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'"
    • 2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
    • John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

    [2] Technically, is there really any person who lived before or after Christ than has "never heard" of God?
    • Romans 1:20 - "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse"
    • Romans 2:15 - "They [Gentiles]show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them."
    • Ecclesiastes 3:11 - "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.
    [3] The problem lies in the same hearts that have "eternity" set in them, that are "without excuse", and have God's law "written on them". Meaning....God put a moral nature in the hearts of all people and a yearning for the immortal and eternity and presented in nature an understanding that he is real and sovereign and exists. However.....
    • Romans 1:18-19 - "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
    • Romans 1:21 - "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened."
    Matt, we can't fall into a mental trap of viewing God as a monster throwing "good" people into hell right and left.

    And we can't fall into a mental trap of viewing "good and sweet" people as having no sin against God and no rejection of the God that they know exists.

    I believe that God is holy and yes wrathful. But I also believe that God is merciful, kind, loving, not wanting anyone to perish [even though they do], and I trust whatever he does to be the holy and perfect thing.

    I know that some Christians just coldly write people off - seemingly not caring about their souls, but don't allow that to color the facts of the scriptures.

    I trust God to BE God.
     
    #17 Scarlett O., Apr 27, 2018
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  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    #18 Matt Black, Apr 27, 2018
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  19. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    All of those saints in Paradise to whom Jesus preached were converted prior to death.
     
    #19 Pastor_Bob, Apr 27, 2018
  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Then there was no need for Him to preach to them.
     
    #20 Matt Black, Apr 27, 2018
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