Free Will compatible with Sovereignty

Those verses do not suggest total depravity

 

Great so we agree man can do things that are positive?

 

So you said "Of course they do, unless you are claiming some part of your body, soul, or spirit escaped the consequences of the fall and remained in utter sinless perfection and merits salvation"

Here you set up black and white (fallacy) scenario as if there is no other options available. I reject that.

If man can do good (positive) toward man then the same nature that allows him to do good toward man would also allow him to see and hear the gospel (which holds its own power) and respond to it. Paul said faith (belief) comes by the gospel (Romans 10:17) and the gospel has its own power (Romans 1:16). If man can do things that are the exact things God tells us as Christians to do (please do not down play this by calling them positive, your attempt here is obvious) then why should we then believe that man cannot also respond to the gospel which we know has its own power to salvation. That position is contradictory.

 

I believe in free-but-weak will, like Augustine.

 

Ok the heart is deceitful. I have never argued against that. Can a deceitful or wicked heart respond to the gospel of Jesus Christ? Does that gospel have power to salvation above that deceit? Of course it does.

That is right, no one is without sin. However this does not say that man cannot respond to the gospel without first being regenerated
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That is correct. God sends his preacher with the power of the gospel. God seeks after man. Man hears the gospel and believes
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Again no one has their own righteousness. Man needs the righteousness of Christ which is gained when he believes the gospel which is delievered by God when He sends His preacher with the power of the Gospel.

And yet still none of those verses say that man cannot respond to God all the while you ignore the verses that say he can.

 

That is what you call it. Traditionalists, like myself, call it the preaching of the gospel. Oh, and of course we get that from scripture as I have shown.

 

As someone who is new to the 5 points, this argument against total depravity even makes no sense to me.
So in order to be total deprived everyone would have to act like Jeffery Dahmer?
Is not some moral law written on the hearts of even the lost?

Salvation is another Issue.

 

How is the law written on the hearts of the lost in Calvinistic theology? Paul says "The Law is Spiritual". Calvinism teaches the depraved man cannot discern anything spiritual.

 

You need to read on in ROM 3 to understand our current situation under grace:

[Rom 3:19-24 KJV] 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

You're referring to man's situation under the law. BUT NOW, we are under grace provided to us by the Lord Jesus Christ. The root question is whether man can accept grace without having the Holy Spirit first reach out to him. I tend to think not but am not necessarily a strong believer in total depravity. I used to be strongly anti-Calvinist primarily due to the fact that I do not accept partial atonement. Now I believe that both the Calvinist and free will interpretations are supported by the Bible. This is a mystery to man which hangs on the difference between foreknowledge and predestination.

 

He said “Is not some MORAL LAW written on the hearts of even the lost?”

Everyone is not a sociopath or a psychopath. Most people (even god-haters) know that drowning babies is wrong and they don’t do it. That hardly qualifies as ‘goodness’ by God’s standards.

Total Depravity means every part of the human being (body, mind and soul) is corrupted by the fall. It does not mean that every human being is as evil as they can be (sociopath or psychopath).

 

Exactly, people can have "morals" even if they hate God, it does not mean they do it for the right reasons or that God is pleased with them. People on here act like Calvinism teaches you're either Regenerated or a Psycho. Which is NOT the case.

 

Right, every part is corrupted by the fall...but the Gospel has the power to pierce the darkness.

And the bible doesn't say gentiles have a moral law on their hearts. It says that we have laws and we even break the laws we make for ourselves.
Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another