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End times thoughts.....

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Iconoclast

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found this online;
What Supporters of Israel are Not Telling You About Their View of Israel's Future • Gary DeMar


You may not believe that this doctrine is taught by mainline premillennial teachers, writers, and preachers. Here’s the evidence:

  • Mark Hitchcock contends in his book, Could the Rapture Happen Today? (94) that the prophecy found in Zechariah 13:8–9 states that “two parts” of the Jews living in the land of Israel during the post-rapture tribulation period “will be cut off and perish.”
  • This interpretation is not unique to Hitchcock. Fellow dispensational pre-tribulationalist Hal Lindsey describes the judgment against Israel in AD 70 as a “picnic” compared to a super-holocaust that will lead to the slaughter of two-thirds of the Jews living in Israel during the Great Tribulation.1
  • In Jack Van Impe’s Israel’s Final Holocaust readers are told that when the prophecy clock starts ticking again after the “rapture,” it “will be traumatic days for Israel. Just when peace seems to have come, it will be taken from her and she will be plunged into another bloody persecution, … a devastating explosion of persecution and misery for Israel….”2
  • Thomas Ice, a frequent co-author with Hitchcock, writes “that before Israel enters into her time of national blessing she must first pass through the fire of the tribulation (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:5-9; Dan. 12:1; Zeph. 1:14-18). Even though the horrors of the Holocaust under Hitler were of an unimaginable magnitude, the Bible teaches that a time of even greater trial awaits Israel during the tribulation. Anti-Semitism will reach new heights, this time global in scope, in which two-thirds of world Jewry will be killed (Zech. 13:7–9; Rev. 12).”3
  • Charles Ryrie writes in his book The Best is Yet to Come that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo “the worst bloodbath in Jewish history.”4
  • John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: “Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse anything that it has known in the past…. [T]he people of Israel … are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine.”5
  • On the September 18, 1991, edition of the “700 Club,” Sid Roth, host of “Messianic Vision,” stated that “two-thirds of the Jewish people [living in Israel] will be exterminated” during a future Great Tribulation. He bases this view on Zechariah 13:8–9 (see below).
  • Arnold Fruchtenbaum states that during the Great Tribulation “Israel will suffer tremendous persecution (Matthew 24:15–28; Revelation 12:1–17). As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed.”6
  • The authors of Are You Rapture Ready? continue with the Jewish holocaust theme describing it as “Holocaust II” when “66 percent of Israel is wiped out.”7
 

Steven Yeadon

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I have heard of this thinking a lot in secular news media. They are called in essence "the real reason evangelicals support Israel" to vilify us, as always.

Israel, particularity Jerusalem, does seem to suffer in Revelation, but I do not understand where they get the idea 2/3 of Israel will perish. I see no support in Revelation for a Second Holocaust.
 

JonShaff

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I have heard of this thinking a lot in secular news media. They are called in essence "the real reason evangelicals support Israel" to vilify us, as always.

Israel, particularity Jerusalem, does seem to suffer in Revelation, but I do not understand where they get the idea 2/3 of Israel will perish. I see no support in Revelation for a Second Holocaust.
Zechariah 13:8
In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive.
 

Baptist Believer

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I have heard of this thinking a lot in secular news media. They are called in essence "the real reason evangelicals support Israel" to vilify us, as always.

Israel, particularity Jerusalem, does seem to suffer in Revelation, but I do not understand where they get the idea 2/3 of Israel will perish. I see no support in Revelation for a Second Holocaust.
They are getting it from Christian dispensationalists.

The evening I came to faith in June 1979, it was one of the first things I 'learned.' The "counselor" gave me a Jack Chick tract called "Kings of the East" that explicitly states that "2/3 of all Jews are killed..." with the Zechariah 13:8 reference. You can see it yourself here (look at PDF page 14). The tract was eventually pulled from publication for its many faults, but it ties in nicely with the Left Behind chronology, as well as most other similar interpretations.

I grew up with this stuff.
 

Baptist Believer

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Yeah. Getting your doctrine from Jack Chick is probably not a real good idea. :)
He was considered one of the most authoritative theologians at the church where I grew up. Fortunately, I didn't run into his KJVO teaching until I had already rejected his authority. One of my friends immersed himself in all things Jack Chick (his aunt ran the local Christian book store and he had all of the Jack Chick tracts and books) and became a committed KJVO believer -- so much so that he believes that using a modern translation is evidence that a person is lost.
 

Yeshua1

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OT prophecy does state that there will be the time of Jacobs Folly, when God will once again deal with Israel once the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled!
Zechariah 13:8
 

1689Dave

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OT prophecy does state that there will be the time of Jacobs Folly, when God will once again deal with Israel once the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled!
Zechariah 13:8
This is interesting. From my point of view I think God placed the broken off jews under his wrath until the end of the world.
“Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost [end].” (1 Thessalonians 2:16) (KJV 1900)

And the "times of the gentiles are fulfilled" at the end of the world. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [gentiles], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19–20) (KJV 1900)

During this time, the broken off Jews are technically the gentiles who trod down Jerusalem. (circumcision made one a Jew, not blood). But for the father's sakes, Christs grafts believers among them back into Israel (Christ and the Church).
 

Yeshua1

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This is interesting. From my point of view I think God placed the broken off jews under his wrath until the end of the world.
“Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost [end].” (1 Thessalonians 2:16) (KJV 1900)

And the "times of the gentiles are fulfilled" at the end of the world. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [gentiles], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19–20) (KJV 1900)

During this time, the broken off Jews are technically the gentiles who trod down Jerusalem. (circumcision made one a Jew, not blood). But for the father's sakes, Christs grafts believers among them back into Israel (Christ and the Church).
The gentiles paul referenced were Gentiles, not jews who were lost!
 

1689Dave

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The gentiles paul referenced were Gentiles, not jews who were lost!
All Jews are born gentiles until circumcised. They received excommunication (became gentiles) if not circumcised on the 8th day after being born. Christ abolished circumcision making all Jews gentiles by default.
 

Yeshua1

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All Jews are born gentiles until circumcised. They received excommunication (became gentiles) if not circumcised on the 8th day after being born. Christ abolished circumcision making all Jews gentiles by default.
Jews are born as such, being physical descendants of Abraham, regardless if circumcised or not!
 

1689Dave

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Jews are born as such, being physical descendants of Abraham, regardless if circumcised or not!
Not true. None of Abraham's 300+ covenant seed and their families were related to him except Ishmael, when Circumcision became the sign of membership in the community. After Isaac came along, Abraham excommunicated Ishmael and Hagar and they were no longer his covenant seed.
 

Yeshua1

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Not true. None of Abraham's 300+ covenant seed and their families were related to him except Ishmael, when Circumcision became the sign of membership in the community. After Isaac came along, Abraham excommunicated Ishmael and Hagar and they were no longer his covenant seed.
The Jewish people are traced thru Isaac, and so any born of that linage are Jews at birth, period. The true seed of Abraham are those of like faith, saved Jews.Gentiles now by Jesus Christ!
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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They are getting it from Christian dispensationalists.

The evening I came to faith in June 1979, it was one of the first things I 'learned.' The "counselor" gave me a Jack Chick tract called "Kings of the East" that explicitly states that "2/3 of all Jews are killed..." with the Zechariah 13:8 reference. You can see it yourself here (look at PDF page 14). The tract was eventually pulled from publication for its many faults, but it ties in nicely with the Left Behind chronology, as well as most other similar interpretations.

I grew up with this stuff.
Wow... how did you tolerate it?
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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This is interesting. From my point of view I think God placed the broken off jews under his wrath until the end of the world.
“Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost [end].” (1 Thessalonians 2:16) (KJV 1900)

And the "times of the gentiles are fulfilled" at the end of the world. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [gentiles], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19–20) (KJV 1900)

During this time, the broken off Jews are technically the gentiles who trod down Jerusalem. (circumcision made one a Jew, not blood). But for the father's sakes, Christs grafts believers among them back into Israel (Christ and the Church).
And what if the females born into Jew families?
 

1689Dave

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And what if the females born into Jew families?
If born to a circumcised father, or married to a circumcised man, (Ruth, Rahab) etc, women are considered covenant members. Abraham's soldiers and their families made up most of his covenant seed through circumcision. While his physical seed, all related to him by blood (Ishmael, the Dukes of Edom, sons of Keturah, etc. ) make up much of the arab world.
 

1689Dave

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The Jewish people are traced thru Isaac, and so any born of that linage are Jews at birth, period. The true seed of Abraham are those of like faith, saved Jews.Gentiles now by Jesus Christ!
Jews were not biblical Jews unless circumcised as members of the community. Regardless of blood relationship. When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, the last of the genuinely circumcised Jews died off leaving only gentiles who practiced Jewish customs and traditions.
 
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