Featured Calvinism: What Have We Been Elected To?

One line answers merely making assertions? OK Cassidy....Um...No it doesn't mean that!

 

So, did Jesus say He would try to draw, or did He say He will draw? You are pouring your theology into the verse. He said He WILL draw.

 

The word used in John 12:32 for 'draw' is helko and it means to draw, to drag off, to draw by an inward power, lead, impel.

This word is also used in...

Simon Peter then, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave’s name was Malchus.[John 18:10]

Now, did Peter try to draw the sword, or did it actually come out of its scabbard as he drew it?

Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not torn.[John 21:11]
Now, did Peter try to draw the net to land, or did he actually draw the net to the land?

When they did not find them, they began dragging Jason and some brethren before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have upset the world have come here also;[Acts 17:6]

KJV uses 'drew', whereas the NASB uses 'dragged'. But its the same Greek word, 'helko' that is being used.

Did the mob of ppl try to drag/draw Jason and some of the Brethren before the city authorities or did they actually drag/draw them?

'Helko' does not mean that God drags/draws us against our wills, but rather that He effectually draws/drags us to Himself.

 

TC.....just shut you down again....it only took one line because you are objecting without knowledge.

 

Simple. But I'd suggest some of you dear people are wrongly holding a view that "drawing" means Salvation instead of understanding it's only one item in the process of getting to it. If I put an advertisement in the paper that I was selling some product, that's a draw. I can say I drew the whole town to my place to consider a purchase. Such doesn't mean they can't back away from doing so. Jesus said he stands at the door and knocks. That's the draw. It's really the preaching of the gospel. No where do we read that he breaks down the door and makes people do anything.

I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Rev 3:18

He, Jesus appeals and implores but it's up to them how they so choose with their will. Notice as well, rather interesting he adds if they'll do this, and choose rightly he'll cause their eyes to see which means increased spiritual revelation of things. He didn't say he just puts seeing into you. You already have that from the start as long as you don't resist it. You respond to the LIGHT you have which God has provided to all men and you'll receive more.

“You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” John 6:44

Here Jesus is drawing, he's knocking on the door. He's exhorting ALL to walk in the LIGHT as he didn't want darkness to overtake anyone. He says, "Believe in the light" Why would he tell them to do that if he knew right well they couldn't? They could if they so chose to.

 

Because they're willfully ignorant by choice. That is once the gospel is presented they can yield to the Spirit of God who brings enlightenment contained in that very message. And that LIGHT belongs to all. Some men however don't want the truth so they go further down into darkness. Jesus (God) wept over Jerusalem and he wanted and longed for them to accept the truth. There was no excuse for them not doing so especially after he had demonstrated so much to them. I was willing Jesus said...I would have gathered you...that WAS God's will. It is they who would not...NOT GOD.

 

Yes, for we preach the good news to all sinners, and those whiom the Father elected unto eternal life will respond to that salvation call!

 

Yes and God grieves for those who didn't receive when it was his will that they do so all along.

 

The way I understand it is: God created everything for his glory. And if there wasn't any sin, we would not understand mercy or grace in salvation. Nor would we understand sovereignty without election. Nor would we understand justice, righteousness and wrath apart from God's punishment of sin.

So in view of this, I believe God in his mercy saved as many as his wrath, goodness and justice would allow.

And we see all of this in Christ on the cross. We see God's unspeakable wrath for sin carried out on his own self in Christ because of the love and mercy he chose to shower on his elect.

We simply preach the gospel and those with ears to hear will want to respond.

 

The Foreknowledge of God in salvation is more than just foreknowing as non Calvinist see it , as God actually knows us in a Covenant fashion, as he knows us and is the direct cause of us now getting saved!

 

IF the Will of God was that they would get saved, they wouldm as his will has the final say in salvation!

 

Well Yeshua no offense but what is it about Jesus lamenting and crying over Jerusalem that HE WOULD HAVE SAVED both they and their children BUT THEY would not, that...you don't understand. That doesn't signify to you they could have been saved? Yes God has the final say about Salvation but let's be thankful that it's for whosoever will may come and drink of the water of life FREELY. Rev 22:17

 

No sinner will even want to freely come to Jesus to get saved unless they were first chosen by God Himself!

 

I'd say rather the Spirit appeals to ALL to be saved. God works in a measure on the want to but ultimately the want to or the will to is up to the individual not God. Paul said it himself, " Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." If God was just implanting in the wanting to or the will to would there be any need to implore...or beseech, or a word that it can even be translated beg? Not obvious that if God were just choosing A, B and C that there would be no need for any of that?

 

The father draws those whom he has chosen to be saved to Jesus to get saved!