Election spoken of in scripture...like this-

Is it that I reject the world of God? Or rather that you're reading the word of God wrongly? I'd say the passage in question has nothing to do with an unsaved person having no ability to get saved that is by making a choice. It's talking about believers if they choose to walk in the flesh they will die. Rom 8:13 They don't have to stay walking in the flesh they can yield to the Spirit.

If they choose to walk carnally they'd be like what Paul calls them in Corinthians...baby Christians or carnal.1 Cor 3:1-9 It most certainly does not mean unsaved or unregenerated can't have a will wanting God. Jesus even said about his disciples one time, "There spirit is willing but their flesh is weak" Didn't mean they couldn't have stayed awake either for he told them to do so. Matt 24:41 He wouldn't have told them to do something they weren't capable of doing. God has told the sinner to repent. They can do it if they choose to. Then God regenerates their spirits AFTER THEY have chosen him.

 

Well I guess I've been told BUT....I respectfully disagree.

 

Sure Icon! You referred to clear teaching. Would you kindly share with me how Jesus in the verse below could lament over Jerusalem the following way if it was really wasn't God's will for them to be his children? It says below he longed to. Other translations say it was his desire. In all honesty doesn't that signify to you God's will? That they be saved? God says HE WAS WILLING...but they weren't. Tell us as you said, clearly if you would how can anything of Calvinism can make sense in the light of Matthew 23:37.

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Matthew 23:37

 

Paul was addressing saved and unsaved persons, and His point was that the unsaved person can read the bible, hear the sermon, but in their lost state cannot by themselves accept or even know its spiritual meaning!

 

Does God love all persons exactly the same fashion?

 

If you wouldn't mind let's look at the whole verse again so as not to miss the point I was really wanting to make.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matt 23:37 (KJV)

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Matt 23:37 (CSB)

Didn't Jesus clearly say above that it was his will, God's will to have gathered and saved they and their children? Can one in good conscience really claim Jesus wasn't sincere in his statement? Obviously if these people weren't saved and Jesus said without question he longed and desired to have them saved (gathered)....then what happens to irresistible grace? God wanted them and desired them but their not being willing stood in the way. Why should it have?

 

God is not pleased with all persons in the same fashion but that's not the same as LOVE.

 

God has chosen to love His own in a Covenant relationship way, not same for all!

 

Well actually I have no problem with God showing certain types of favor to those who are in Covenant relationship with him. That's not favor as it relates to salvation though but favor as it relates to someone being obedient. God is LOVE. There is no less LOVE in God.

 

My Statement: Didn't Jesus clearly say above that it was his will, God's will to have gathered and saved they and their children?

Icon's Statement : No....that is not what was said...here is what was said;
"how often would I ".....How often I wanted .....It does not speak to What God actually did.

My Response: What? I think you know you're grabbing at straws here Icon. Would means this is what my will was to do! Any civilized enlightened court of law would tell you the same. Would means YES I'll take this positive action. It was his will for them to be saved! How possibly can you deny it? You say well it doesn't speak of what God did. Well certainly he didn't do it for HE SAID THEY were not willing he didn't say he wasn't. If he was willing and that's what he wanted then how Calvinists think it should have been irresistible grace time.

So therefore in your way of thinking if something wasn't actually done...well Jesus I guess didn't quite mean it....or it wasn't truly heart felt or maybe he changed his mind. Don't know how you could quite say that if Jesus said it was my will for them to be saved. I'm sorry but that stands forever! You can't change it. So again if irresistible grace were true it would have been the order of the day if Jesus meant what he said that he wanted them gathered. It wasn't employed which has to demonstrate such doesn't exist.

 

And Icon I fail to understand for the life of me why you rolled out your whole discourse of effectual calling. Has nothing to do with the issue I raised. Forgive my but it seems that when you get in a jam you just pile on indoctrination or so many other things to divert the issue. No? Explain why not?

 

It still is, as the point was that the Lord chooses to save His own Covenant people, that he elects them based upn knowing them in a special way that he does not have with the lost.