1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Double Predestination

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reynolds, Jul 31, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 11
  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because my faith is not founded on a man but on the word of God. :)

    Because it is wrong. "Double Predestination" has nothing at all to do with Particular Redemption. "Double Predestination" is one of the errors of Hyper ("High") Calvinism. (Hyper means to go above or beyond.)

    Some may perceive it to be a teaching of Calvin, but I disagree with that assessment, having read parts of "The Institutes" in both Latin and French. (I have never read The Institutes all the way though as I lack the interest to do so.)

    Yes, "High" or "Hyper" Calvinists. Those who go beyond even Calvin in their doctrine.

    I am not sure why those obsessed with the discussion of Soteriology seem so focused on John Calvin and his writings. Those of us who are Particular Baptists don't get our doctrine from his writings nor do we consider his writings to be infallible nor inerrant.

    We disagree with much of what Calvin believed and wrote about. We disagree with infant sprinkling. We disagree with Presbyterian Church Government. We disagree with his views of Church/State. We disagree with his (and most of Christendom's in that day and age) use of force or threat of force to get people to reject heresy and accepted what the inquisitor considered "orthodoxy."

    So why keep bringing up Calvin? Let me give you an example of how ludicrous it is to keep bringing up Calvin.

    You are a Christian. You follow Jesus. Wonderful. I have a neighbor down the street who is Hispanic. His name is Jesus (Hay-soos). He is a drunk and a womanizer. Are you, a follower of Jesus, also a drunk and a womanizer? Of course not! Your faith has nothing to do with a guy named Jesus who lives down the street from me, just as my faith has nothing to do with a French former Catholic who lived in the 16th century.

    :)
     
    #41 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And this is what those who rail against Particular Redemption fail to understand. Every time the word "predestined," or one of its cognates, is used in the bible it is always in a positive context. It is NEVER used in a negative context, IE predestined to hell, or torment, ect.
     
    #42 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 2
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not agree with all things held by calvin, but his Institutes and his commentaries are worthwile to have and to use though!
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Aug 1, 2018
  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why not lose the name?
     
    #44 Reynolds, Aug 1, 2018
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I guess I keep bringing up Calvin because I am discussing Calvinism. It appears it would be a wise move for Calvinists to change their name and quit calling themselves Calvinists. Might un-muddy the waters a bit.
     
    #45 Reynolds, Aug 1, 2018
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Uh do you know what a strawman is. The accusation in and of itself is pretty clear. He is accusing me of making an argument I am not making. I get tired of being accused by cals/ reformed/ parts of saying things I have not said nor intended to say by them. I am not the only one.
     
    #46 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    it has gained traction for centuries, so is well accepted as a term to denote certain beliefs. I tend to say also reformed/particular Baptist!
     
    #47 Yeshua1, Aug 1, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What muddies the weater here is many use reformed/Cal;vinist to mean same thing, but actually does not!
     
    #48 Yeshua1, Aug 1, 2018
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes.

    Yes, but all it is is an accusation. Now you need to back it up with evidence.

    Then explain that.

    Then present that with evidence to support it.

    Who else?
     
    #49 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And that is your error. Equating "calvinism" with John Calvin.

    I have tried and am still accused of being a follower of John Calvin rather than being an Historic Particular Baptist.

    I didn't muddy them. You do so by trying to equate "calvinism" with John Calvin. The two do not equate any more than "following Jesus" equated to walking behind my Hispanic neighbor Jesus.

    :)
     
    #50 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2018
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why don't you stop (mis)using it?
     
    #51 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2018
  12. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Both single and double predestination, as taught by Reformed/Calvinists, are not in the Holy Bible, and therefore false doctrines. John 3:16 clearly is against any such teachings, as are many other Bible passages.
     
    #52 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 1, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Except for Adam. He is the exception to Calvinism. Adam was given the choice to live or die as set before him. Adam could have chosen to live and reject the forbidden fruit. Adam is the only one who had the power to override God's sovereign will. Thus, God was not always Sovereign in the way Calvinist portray His sovereignty. Was it God's sovereign will that Adam should choose life, or death?
     
    #53 steaver, Aug 1, 2018
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's just a shorthand for believing in the Doctrines of Grace.
    This is from the Baptist 1689 Confession of Faith.
    III:3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ [1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34], to the praise of His glorious grace [Ephesians 1:5-6]. Others are left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice [Romans 9:22-23; Jude 4].
     
    #54 Martin Marprelate, Aug 1, 2018
  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am not misusing it. What is the sub forum called? Why is it called that? Who was Calvinism named after?
     
    #55 Reynolds, Aug 1, 2018
  16. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Adam is the only one who had the power to override God's sovereign will

    Which "God" do you have in mind here? Surely not the God of the Holy Bible? Forget how "Calvinism" portrays God's Sovereignty, the Word of God, the Holy Bible is very clear that God IS always 100% Sovereign, and NO human has ever, or can ever "over-ride" this! What you are suggesting is blatant heresy.
     
    #56 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 1, 2018
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvinism is named for John Calvin. Your Hispanic neighbor Jesus (Hesus) is irrelevant.
     
    #57 Reynolds, Aug 1, 2018
  18. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    show me from the Bible, where and how God can be "glorified" in the damnation of lost sinners? The Bible very clearly says in places like Ezekiel 18, that God "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked" (18:23). What this confessions does, is to make God into a monster!
     
    #58 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 1, 2018
  19. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What some Reformed really believe about the God of the Holy Bible: (like the "confession" mentioned in #54)

    "One student asked Dr. Gerstner, “How can I be happy in heaven if I’m aware that one of my loved ones is in hell?” Dr. Gerstner responded: “Don’t you know that when you are in heaven you will be so sanctified that you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God.”

    Does anyone know where in the Bible this is taught?
     
    #59 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 1, 2018
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 9:22-23; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; Revelation 16:5-7.
     
    #60 Martin Marprelate, Aug 1, 2018
Page 3 of 11
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...