1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Double Predestination

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reynolds, Jul 31, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 8 of 11
  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Whosoever wants to get saved will be, and that would be the sheep of Jesus, the Ones given to him by the Father!
     
    #141 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ““I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,” (John 17:20)
     
    #142 1689Dave, Aug 2, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I see it as being that ALL have sinned in Adam, all deserve Hell, and will freely reject Jesus to dave them, so God permits me to have that final state he predestined for all who reject Jesus. He acively saves His own elect.
     
    #143 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Honestly that is what all you guys say, we do not know what you believe. Its a record that gets repeated over and over and over here and elsewhere.
     
    #144 Revmitchell, Aug 2, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    he indded held to limited atonement, as all actually do save for Universalists!
     
    #145 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  6. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Indeed, for all believers, as this is a prayer for them. But you cannot conclude from this that Jesus did not care about all sinners, as Paul shows in 1 Timothy 2:1-6, where he says that were are to pray for ALL.
     
    #146 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  7. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvin never believe in any limit on the death of Jesus Christ, as he says on Mark 14:24, which is in connection with the Lord's Supper, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"
     
    #147 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  8. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    NOT from the Bible!
     
    #148 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  9. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you say, "Whosoever wants to get saved will be", so you admit to human FREE WILL?
     
    #149 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvin held to the atonement was sufficient to save all sinners, but that God intended for it to save the Elect themselves!
     
    #150 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those whose desire is to get saved will be the elect of God, as He will regenerate them in order to have them desire and be able to come to Christ!
     
    #151 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  12. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No he did NOT, check his commentaries on Mark 14:24, John 3:16 and Colossians 1:14, and you will see very clear language, like Jesus not dying for only a part of the world, but the whole human race, and His death was for "everyone without exception", and not the Calvinistic phrase, "without distinction", etc.
     
    #152 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  13. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How can the lost sinners "desire" anything, because according to reformed theology, their wills are in bondage and they are dead and cannot respond? If the world of sinners can "desire to get saved", then they all must have freedom of choice.
     
    #153 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  14. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    to "freely reject Jesus", requires FREE WILL for then to do this!

    This Reformed theology is double-speak!!!
     
    #154 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not knowing how his name is spelled and not knowing that he had been dead for 84 years when the 5 points were formulated are a pretty good indication he doesn't have a clue. You can deny that all you want but facts are facts.

    Just look at this thread. Trying to accuse every Particular Baptist of believing in the mythical "double predestination." Not to mention calling the sincerely held soteriological beliefs of other members "evil."
     
    #155 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2018
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ZOOOOOOOMMMM!!! Right over his head! LOL!
     
    #156 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2018
  17. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,864
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We've been through this before. Calvin did not cast his theology in terms of limited or unlimited atonement. The key was predestination. Those after him made reasonable inferences about the outworkings of his doctrine as it applies to the extent of the atonement.

    Personally, I think unlimited atonement vs. limited atonement (and that's really an Anglo-American concept) means nothing and leads to endless speculation. Calvin believed that only those predestined to salvation, without any merit in themselves, will have eternal life. Put all the glosses on it that you will, but that is the core of his soteriology, not the speculative extent of the atonement.
     
    #157 rsr, Aug 2, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    if that is the case, then Calvin, like the Calvinists since his time, are equally not capable of rightly expressing what their beliefs really are. On John 3:16 he is very clear that Jesus died for the entire human race, and thereby opened the way to eternal life for them that repented. If his works say different elsewhere, this further proves the folly in this system known as Calvinism!
     
    #158 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I'm not sure using "desire" changes anything. But let's go with it...

    de·sire
    dəˈzī(ə)r/
    noun
    1. 1.
      a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

    So God wished, hoped maybe, Adam would choose life??
     
    #159 steaver, Aug 2, 2018
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So are you saying God willed that Adam choose death?
     
    #160 steaver, Aug 2, 2018
Page 8 of 11
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...