1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Jesuit Origins of Futurism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 1689Dave, Aug 30, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not what Ezekiel says.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, its that the earth as Paradise restored first, and then the eternal state!
     
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The universe explodes as Peter says. And the New Heavens and Earth emerge.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    After the Millinium!
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is no millennium with a return to animal sacrifices. Plagued with sin and death and carnal delights based on legalistic obedience to law.

    Jesus reigns now (God rules the universe. Jesus is God). And when he returns he resurrects or raptures us into the new heavens and earth.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Premillennialism and the futurism of the Jesuits are similar but not the same. The Premillinnialists did not force a gap into Daniel. The Jesuits did. But what is interesting is that they chose premillennialism to promote their agenda.
     
  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,858
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Don't you want to be with Jesus for a thousand years? Why would there be animal sacrifices with Jesus living in Jerusalem?
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is what the Jesuits teach. And what futurists believe. I don't believe there will be a millennium, just the restoration of Israel into the New Heavens and Earth in the resurrection on the last day.
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Historic Premillennialism

    By Wick Broomall

    Dispensational Premillennialism and classic Historic Premillennialism are two very different systems of
    eschatology:

    1. Older Premillennialism taught that the church was in the fore-vision of the Old Testament prophecy;
    Dispensationalism teaches that the church is hardly, if at all, in the Old Testament prophets.

    2. Older Premillennialism taught that the great burden of Old Testament prophecy was the coming of Christ
    to die (at the First Advent) and the kingdom age (at the Second Advent). Dispensationalism says that the
    great burden of Old Testament prophecy is the kingdom of the Jews.


    3. Older Premillennialism taught that the First Advent was the specific time for Christ to die for man's sin;
    Dispensationalism teaches that the kingdom (earthly) should have been set up at the First Advent for that was
    the predicted time of its coming.


    4. Older Premillennialism taught that the present age of grace was designed by God and predicted in the Old
    Testament; Dispensationalism holds that the present age was unforeseen in the Old Testament and thus is a
    "great parenthesis" introduced because the Jews rejected the kingdom.


    5. Older Premillennialism taught that one may divide time in any way desirable so long as one allows for a
    millennium after the Second Advent; Dispensationalism maintains that the only allowable way to divide time
    is in seven dispensations. The present age is the sixth such dispensation; the last one will be the millennial
    age after the Second Advent. It is from this division of time that Dispensationalism gets its name.


    6. Older Premillennialism taught that the Second Advent was to be one event; Dispensationalism holds that
    the Second Advent will be in two sections - "the Rapture" and "the Revelation." Between these two events
    they put the (to them) unfulfilled seventieth week (seven years) of Daniel 9:23-27, which they call "the Great
    Tribulation."


    6. Older Premillennialism taught that certain signs must precede the Second Advent; Dispensationalism
    teaches that no sign precedes the "rapture-stage" of the Second Advent, which may occur "at any moment."
    However, there are signs that precede the "revelation-stage" of the Second Advent. The "Rapture" could
    occur "at any moment," but the "Revelation" must take place after the seven years of the Great Tribulation.
    The first stage is undated and unannounced; the second stage is dated and announced.


    7. Older Premillennialism had two resurrections-the righteous before the Millennium; the unrighteous after
    the Millennium. Dispensationalism has introduced a third resurrection - "tribulation-saints" at the
    "revelation-stage" of the Second Advent.


    8. Older Premillennialism usually held what is called the "historical symbolic" view of the book of
    Revelation. This view makes Revelation a picture in symbolic form of the main events in the present age.
    Dispensationalism holds generally to the "futurist" view of the book of Revelation, which view makes almost
    the whole book (especially chapters 4 to 19) a literal description of events to take place during "the Great
    Tribulation" or Daniel's seventieth week, which Dispensationalism considers as yet unfulfilled.


    9. The general attitude of older Premillennialism was on the whole mild and reverent in its approach to
    Scripture. There have been some outstanding scholars who have been persuaded that the premillennial is the
    correct view. In contrast, Dispensationalism has assumed a far more dogmatic attitude. It has introduced a
    number of novelties in prophetic interpretation that the church never heard of until about a century ago.
     
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,858
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So if Revelation does teach the Blessed Hope and a thousand years, would you want to be with Jesus in Jerusalem? Or would you not?
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Revelation does not teach this. Jesus said his kingdom comes WITHOUT OBSERVATION. You say it does. Who am I to believe?
     
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,858
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Right, I got your hermanuetics. My question is what if?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Who cares what the Jesuits teach? This is just another one of your smoke screens.

    No, it's not. I am a futurist and I don't believe any such nonsense.

    The first three words sum it all up. You read "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" but you don't believe it. :(
     
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Larkin said futurism existed before the Jesuit version. So he agrees with you. But I'll post this again showing there is more to it than what you suggest. Please read carefully.

    Historic Premillennialism [VS Dispensationalism]

    By Wick Broomall

    Dispensational Premillennialism and classic Historic Premillennialism are two very different systems of eschatology:

    1. Older Premillennialism taught that the church was in the fore-vision of the Old Testament prophecy;
    Dispensationalism teaches that the church is hardly, if at all, in the Old Testament prophets.

    2. Older Premillennialism taught that the great burden of Old Testament prophecy was the coming of Christ
    to die (at the First Advent) and the kingdom age (at the Second Advent). Dispensationalism says that the
    great burden of Old Testament prophecy is the kingdom of the Jews.


    3. Older Premillennialism taught that the First Advent was the specific time for Christ to die for man's sin;
    Dispensationalism teaches that the kingdom (earthly) should have been set up at the First Advent for that was
    the predicted time of its coming.


    4. Older Premillennialism taught that the present age of grace was designed by God and predicted in the Old
    Testament; Dispensationalism holds that the present age was unforeseen in the Old Testament and thus is a
    "great parenthesis" introduced because the Jews rejected the kingdom.


    5. Older Premillennialism taught that one may divide time in any way desirable so long as one allows for a
    millennium after the Second Advent; Dispensationalism maintains that the only allowable way to divide time
    is in seven dispensations. The present age is the sixth such dispensation; the last one will be the millennial
    age after the Second Advent. It is from this division of time that Dispensationalism gets its name.


    6. Older Premillennialism taught that the Second Advent was to be one event; Dispensationalism holds that
    the Second Advent will be in two sections - "the Rapture" and "the Revelation." Between these two events
    they put the (to them) unfulfilled seventieth week (seven years) of Daniel 9:23-27, which they call "the Great
    Tribulation."


    6. Older Premillennialism taught that certain signs must precede the Second Advent; Dispensationalism
    teaches that no sign precedes the "rapture-stage" of the Second Advent, which may occur "at any moment."
    However, there are signs that precede the "revelation-stage" of the Second Advent. The "Rapture" could
    occur "at any moment," but the "Revelation" must take place after the seven years of the Great Tribulation.
    The first stage is undated and unannounced; the second stage is dated and announced.


    7. Older Premillennialism had two resurrections-the righteous before the Millennium; the unrighteous after
    the Millennium. Dispensationalism has introduced a third resurrection - "tribulation-saints" at the
    "revelation-stage" of the Second Advent.


    8. Older Premillennialism usually held what is called the "historical symbolic" view of the book of
    Revelation. This view makes Revelation a picture in symbolic form of the main events in the present age.
    Dispensationalism holds generally to the "futurist" view of the book of Revelation, which view makes almost
    the whole book (especially chapters 4 to 19) a literal description of events to take place during "the Great
    Tribulation" or Daniel's seventieth week, which Dispensationalism considers as yet unfulfilled.


    9. The general attitude of older Premillennialism was on the whole mild and reverent in its approach to
    Scripture. There have been some outstanding scholars who have been persuaded that the premillennial is the
    correct view. In contrast, Dispensationalism has assumed a far more dogmatic attitude. It has introduced a
    number of novelties in prophetic interpretation that the church never heard of until about a century ago.
     
    #114 1689Dave, Sep 2, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are adding to Revelation if you make the kingdom physical after Jesus says it is not.
     
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't care how many times you post the same false information. It is still false.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not false. It is history. Both Larkin and Schaff say you are wrong. And Wick Broomall confirms it. It is up for all to read. Let them be the judge.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So your final authority is Larkin, Schaff, and Broomall? Their writings are inspired? Inerrant? Are you a man follower?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where do you find contemporary history in scripture?
     
  20. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,858
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Or more curiously, why do you answer a question with a question?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...