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Featured The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by teknonoftheos, Sep 30, 2018.

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  1. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    #81 Felipe Rios, Oct 2, 2018
  2. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    None. In short, there is no "7 year tribulation", which is based on a lie that the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel floats some time in the future, which is not true. The 70 weeks of Daniel was fulfilled already entirely, we are now in future times ahead of that time. The "great tribulation" is simply the time that corresponds to the events at and shortly after the second coming of the Messiah, because it'll be the worst event that has ever happened on the earth, because he comes in wrath to destroy, which will happen in an orderly series of events, beginning with trumpet blasts, which are the seven trumpets of Revelation, in correlation with the Festival of Trumpets of the Torah, which happens in Month Seven Day 1, then in Month Seven Day 15 the seven bowls of wrath of Revelation will be poured for seven days, in correlation with the Feast of Tabernacles, so actually, the "great tribulation" will last around 3 weeks, 3 weeks of plagues, and then the remaining years, after all cities have collapsed in the final plague, and everyone is left injured and homeless after all the devastation of every building on earth, then the armies of angels Yeshuah came with will go around the earth and capture each person one by one, to take them to the valley of Jehoshafat outside the east wall of Old Jerusalem, to be judged, and then thrown into the valley of Hinnom, which will become a lava lake after the second coming, which is on the south side of Old Jerusalem. The "rapture", which is simply the gathering of those that will inherit the kingdom of God, will be gathered in Month Seven Day 10, after the seven trumpet blasts of Revelation, in the last trumpet to be blasted, which happens in the Day of Atonement. We will be gathered by angels, and taken to meet Yeshuah in the air. The dead will be raised as well. I also have a full study on this, The Second Coming, the Trumpet Blasts, the Bowls of Wrath, and Inheriting the Earth | Wisdom of God .
     
    #82 teknonoftheos, Oct 2, 2018
  3. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    He denies the truth of the Trinity, what difference does it make? Apparently, it is more important to people on the board what a person believes in respect to Christ's second coming than the nature of God Himself.
    The Bible clearly teaches that God is ONE (see Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Isaiah 43:10, James 2:19, 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6 and 1 Timothy 2:5-6). At the same time, however, the Bible also teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all possess the classic divine attributes of omnipotence (Isaiah 64:8, John 1:3, Job 33:4), omniscience (1 John 3:20, John 16:30, 1 Corinthians 2:10), omnipresence (1 Kings 8:27, Matthew 28:20, Psalm 139:7-10), and omnibenevolence (John 3:16, Ephesians 5:25, Romans 15:30-31). In fact, Scripture applies the title of “God” to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit independently (Philippians 1:2, John 1:1, Acts 5:3-4)! The solution to this apparent contradiction of Scripture (God is one, yet three are God) is the classic formulation of the Trinity as described in the Athanasian Creed:

    “That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.” (from Creeds of Christendom, with a History and Critical notes. Volume II. The History of Creeds.. Harper & Brothers. 1877. pp. 66–71.)'

    Isn't this man's salvation of more importance than his eschatological ideas? Again, board members are straining gnats and swallowing camels. I guess a case could be made that if one can debunk one area of his bizarre theology, then maybe he might be more inclined to look at the most important questions that are raised by his denials of Christianity 101.
     
    #83 Walter, Oct 2, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  4. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    If Yeshuah had "omniscience", he would not have said he didn't know the hour of his own coming. Your way of thinking is flawed.
     
    #84 teknonoftheos, Oct 2, 2018
  5. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    No, statements of omniscience during His earthly ministry reference His divine nature while statements of limited knowledge reference His human nature. Theologian Wayne Grudem explained it this way: “Jesus learned things and had limited knowledge with respect to His human nature but was always omniscient with respect to His divine nature, and therefore he was able any time to ‘call to mind’ whatever information would be needed for His ministry.”

    He knew people’s thoughts (Mark 2:8), was able to distinguish true believers from non-believers (John 6:64), knew “from the beginning” Judas would betray Him (John 6:64), and in fact knew “all things” (John 16:30). On the other hand, He “increased in wisdom” (Luke 2:52) and did not know the day or hour of His second coming (Mark 13:32). How do we put these statements together? How can one who knows all things also not know the time of His return? How can one who knows all things also increase in wisdom? Here is the answer. In a doctrine articulated some 1,500 years ago at a gathering of Christian leaders known as the Council of Chalcedon. That meeting yielded a now-famous statement declaring Jesus to possess “two natures . . . the property of each nature being preserved and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons.” In other words, Jesus possessed (and continues to possess) both a divine nature and a human nature.
     
    #85 Walter, Oct 2, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  6. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    This is not so, Yeshuah is finite, with limited knowledge, which is why he abides in a body like you and I. Yet in his finite existence, he is the very "representation" of God in creation, who alone is infinite, which is why only the Father knows the hour of the coming of Yeshuah, and only the Father has counted the hairs on everyone's heads, and only the Father is everywhere. This is why Yeshuah said, "the Father is greater than I". You err in your understanding of God and Yeshuah.
     
    #86 teknonoftheos, Oct 2, 2018
  7. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    He knew people’s thoughts (Mark 2:8), was able to distinguish true believers from non-believers (John 6:64), knew “from the beginning” Judas would betray Him (John 6:64), and in fact knew “all things” (John 16:30). On the other hand, He “increased in wisdom” (Luke 2:52) and did not know the day or hour of His second coming (Mark 13:32). How do we put these statements together? How can one who knows all things also not know the time of His return? How can one who knows all things also increase in wisdom? Here is the answer. In a doctrine articulated some 1,500 years ago at a gathering of Christian leaders known as the Council of Chalcedon. That meeting yielded a now-famous statement declaring Jesus to possess “two natures . . . the property of each nature being preserved and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons.” In other words, Jesus possessed (and continues to possess) both a divine nature and a human nature.

    Jehovahs Witnesses use the same arguments that you use to deny His Divinity.
     
    #87 Walter, Oct 2, 2018
  8. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    He knew the thoughts of man because he was anointed with the set-apart airflow. Which is even how the prophet Samuel, who had the same anointing, was able to tell someone the thoughts of their own heart,

    "I am the seer," Samuel replied. "Go up ahead of me to the high place, for today you are to eat with me, and in the morning I will send you on your way and will tell you all that is in your heart. (1 Samuel 9:19)

    Which is why the Samaritan women perceived that Yeshuah was a prophet, because a prophet has the ability to know the hearts of men through the set-apart airflow inside the prophet,

    The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. (John 4:19)

    Again, you err in your understanding of God and Yeshuah. And finally, I am NOT a "Jehovah's Witness".
     
    #88 teknonoftheos, Oct 2, 2018
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As the OP has been banned for denial of the Deity of Jesus and is thus unable to participate further, this thread is closed.
     
    #89 Squire Robertsson, Oct 2, 2018
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