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The Gift Ministries

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HankD

HankD

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jeremiah1five said:
So, correct me if I am wrong, but is that a qualification to being an apostle of the Lord? The gift/ability to raise the dead?
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Again. One who is "sent" (and is not among the 12 Apostles - upper case apostles) may or may not have the ability to raise the dead.
That depends on the orders.
 
Y

Yeshua1

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HankD said:
Again. One who is "sent" (and is not among the 12 Apostles - upper case apostles) may or may not have the ability to raise the dead.
That depends on the orders.
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When I use the term, I refer to the 11 of Jesus, and Paul!
 
HankD

HankD

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I agree that the "Great Commission" was given to the original 12 Apostles (OK - 11).

However I also believe that "missionaries" of all ages that have brought the gospel of grace to others are the "sent" in the spirit of obedience to the "Great Commission" as the LORD tarries in return.
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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Yeshua1 said:
Do you beleive that Jesus commissioned throughout church histyory Apostles and prophets that did exactly what the ones in the Bible were shown and said to be doing for Him?
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1 Cor. 12
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

Please review this and hear what i'm saying. Modern day apostles are not writing Scripture. They are building works where no man has laid a foundation of Christ. They are organizing believers, helping pastors/teachers/evangelists/prophets do the work God called them to do in a specific area. Read 1-2 Timothy and Titus as Letters to an apostle, not letters to a pastor. They will make more sense ;)
 
Rhetorician

Rhetorician

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jeremiah1five said:
Or, as it is commonly known...the Five-Fold Ministry: Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teacher.

Ephesians 4:11 (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

These gift ministries express in and to the Church the Life of Christ in His people:

Apostle:
Hebrews 3:1 (KJV)
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Prophet:
John 4:19 (KJV)
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Evangelist:
Matthew 4:17 (KJV)
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Pastor:
John 10:14 (KJV)
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Teacher:
John 3:2 (KJV)
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

The Body of Christ.
Paul described the body of believers this way:

The person who is apostle is not the apostle, Christ in the person is Apostle.
The person who is prophet is not the prophet, but Christ in the person is the Prophet.
The person who is evangelist is not the evangelist, Christ in the person is the Evangelist.
The person who is pastor is not the pastor, but Christ in the person is the Pastor/Shepherd.
The person who is teacher is not the teacher, Christ in the person is the Teacher.

These five ministries are the expressed life of Christ in His people. To say there is no more apostles - especially the apostles (thumb) is denying the Life of Christ in His people. The thumb is important for one cannot grasp a stick and other needed functions the thumb can do that the others cannot do.

To deny any of these expressed manifestations of the Life of Christ in His people is to deny Christ:

1 John 2:22-24 (KJV)
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

To deny the Life of Christ in the Church in these ministries which are Christ is to be ….. well, you know.
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Hello Jermiah1five,

How are you dear brother.

When I took Ephesians as an intensive under Dr. Rick Melick, an SBC NT scholar of note, at Mid America Baptist Seminary back in the olden days; he taught us that this was the passage that discussed the "gifted men (offices)" of the Church. There were five described as you have laid out but only four offices that come from the five: Prophet, Apostle, Evangelist, Pastors, and Teachers.

When I took my Greek I learned of the Granville Sharp's Rule, thus there are only two offices for this time period. The offices of Prophet and Apostle have been fulfilled or done away (depends on how you study it?). And the two offices left are the office of Evangelist and Pastor-Teacher. Pastor-Teacher being the same office of the leadership of the Church. So we are left with only Evangelist and Pastor-Teachers for the Church age. I know I have not explained this well but you get the gist of what I say I hope?

I know I will have a great deal of "push back" so let me have it. And I have not studied enough to change my opinion of what I have stated. So, let me have it!! I know you will.

Read and enjoy!

sdg!

rd
 
HankD

HankD

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All semantics aside, there is a sense in which we are all "sent" - maybe to our next door neighbor.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

Fellow Servant
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HankD said:
All semantics aside, there is a sense in which we are all "sent" - maybe to our next door neighbor.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
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I would agree..you're sent to your children And wife even. You're laying a foundation of Christ there. Apostle's gift is teaching others to be kingdom minded outside of their immediate sphere of influence. That's just a portion of their gifting.
 
HankD

HankD

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Now, as to "prophet" - similar to apostle, I might call a man's message "prophetic" but would not personally say he is a prophet.

He would bring a message from the completed word of God and yes even finding things hitherto not seen (but not "advanced revelation").

I think I would be able to say that he is "gifted" in the things of the Lord.

Those who believe that prophets could/would be authorized to prophesy please provide scriptural reasons

How in your estimation, is the ability to prophecy acquired?

And is it by the anointing of a certain church or directly from God Himself?
 
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jeremiah1five

jeremiah1five

Member
Rhetorician said:
Hello Jermiah1five,

How are you dear brother.

When I took Ephesians as an intensive under Dr. Rick Melick, an SBC NT scholar of note, at Mid America Baptist Seminary back in the olden days; he taught us that this was the passage that discussed the "gifted men (offices)" of the Church. There were five described as you have laid out but only four offices that come from the five: Prophet, Apostle, Evangelist, Pastors, and Teachers.

When I took my Greek I learned of the Granville Sharp's Rule, thus there are only two offices for this time period. The offices of Prophet and Apostle have been fulfilled or done away (depends on how you study it?). And the two offices left are the office of Evangelist and Pastor-Teacher. Pastor-Teacher being the same office of the leadership of the Church. So we are left with only Evangelist and Pastor-Teachers for the Church age. I know I have not explained this well but you get the gist of what I say I hope?

I know I will have a great deal of "push back" so let me have it. And I have not studied enough to change my opinion of what I have stated. So, let me have it!! I know you will.

Read and enjoy!

sdg!

rd
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Hello Rhetorician.
I read you.
The hand of God has only two digits because men want to cut off the thumb, and the index finger.

Mutilation of the hand of God.

Much learning hath made thee mad, Rhetorician.

I cannot receive that.

My God has every digit in place in His body.
 
HankD

HankD

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jeremiah1five said:
That doesn't matter to me. You were support and support you gave (in my estimation).
WELCOME BACK, SOLDIER!
Good Job!
:)
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Thanks.
Yes, I was in an intelligence and information unit which ran from Upstate NY to Thule Greenland, the Ballistic Missile Early Warning System (BMEWS).
We watched the Russians.
They watched us.
Fun.
 
jeremiah1five

jeremiah1five

Member
HankD said:
Thanks.
Yes, I was in an intelligence and information unit which ran from Upstate NY to Thule Greenland, the Ballistic Missile Early Warning System (BMEWS).
We watched the Russians.
They watched us.
Fun.
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Shhhh...let's keep that quiet.
Now we gotta hide you from the Ruskies!
I know nuthingk!
I see nuthingk!
:Whistling
Brothers! Let's throw a feint!
You bros go that way, you bros go that way...c'mon, into the mouse hole in the corner. They'll never find you there!

Well, proud to know a warrior.

You're in God's Army, now.
And in rank the Lord has our front.
Our brother's have our back!
Amen?

(now I KNOW you're not a fink.)
 
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