God's Purpose Accord to Election

Justification is the act of God in making a person just, or righteous, in His sight ( Romans 8:33 ).
Our actions as believers do not "justify" us, Gods actions on the part of men through His Son, do.

Faith is the evidence of it ( Hebrews 11:1 ).
When the Bible says that believers are justified by faith, it means, at least to me, that their faith is the evidence of their justification by God.
I'm not sure what it means to you.
Are you looking for passages that state that faith is a gift?

Ephesians 2:8-10

That faith is from God?

Romans 3:21-22
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 2:20
Galatians 3:22

As I see it, the faith "of Christ" literally means the faith from Christ.


Are you looking for Scripture that specifically states that faith precedes regeneration?
It will take some time to run through it all.
The Bible is not silent on the subject, but it is quite detailed.

Are you looking for passages that directly or indirectly state that belief is a work of God?
Those I can give:

John 6:29
John 6:36-40
John 6:44
John 6:64-65
John 17:2
Romans 8:29-30
Ephesians 1:4-5
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
Philippians 1:29

According to these, belief on Christ resulted from God doing a work for men...
Not belief on Christ resulting in God doing a work for men.

If men could perform an action to gain eternal life, that would be works and would result in eternal life as a reward.
Voila!
That is exactly what every false religion in the world teaches...salvation by man's efforts, whatever those efforts might entail.
"Simple belief" would secure the greatest gift God could ever give; only it wouldn't truly be a gift, if that were the way it was gained.

It took me many years to understand this in my reading of Scripture.
It is my understanding and experience that God gives those answers to His children; but they have to be willing to do what He commands...

Read His word over and over again, my friend.
It takes time to sink in, because we as believers are dull of hearing ( 1 Corinthians 3:1-4, Hebrews 5:11 ) and need time in His word.
Years, from my perspective.



May God bless you in your studies.

 

Why would God sanctify first someone who was still a lost sinner and not reconciled back to him yet?

 

How can sanctification come before any other step, as the holy Spirit Himself is the One to works in us to conform us to Jesus, and he must have us justified and indwelt before that process!

 

Unless god grants to us a new heart and gives us ears to hear with, we remain deaf to the Gospel!

 

In order for that person obey the truth in order to believe in order to be saved.

 

That would not be given to him by sanctification, but by regeneration!

 

You're taking it literally? Really? Or are you really picking and choosing from those very Psalms what fits your doctrine to take literally. You don't believe the ungodly eat up God's children like bread. You don't believe it's saying they're cannibals. You don't believe that the sinner doesn't do ANY good or to ANY degree at all so I challenge you on that....I contend you don't take it literally.

I'm not saying he doesn't! But there are varying degrees as to how much men do yield in resistance to God, some totally and some not so much and if there are degrees of how much one persecutes God's people there would be degrees to how much one wouldn't receive God's call of repentance as well. I don't deny God leads us and encourages us to repent but your position is God just rams that condition into one.

I don't agree with your Calvinistic theology David sorry but NO I don't.

I believe man has a depraved nature from birth. I believe men can hear God's righteous decrees and some inwardly can choose to want to adhere to them but as far as their will but they can't walk in perfection of keeping the law, thus provision was made for atonement. I don't believe it took a special regeneration in peoples hearts for people to want to serve God although I acknowledge greater numbers don't.

I believe the promise of God's to give a new heart was for after the time when Jesus arose. Now we're new creations. They weren't such before Jesus rose from the dead. If the new heart was a universal thing from the time of Adam (that is put into the righteous) then why was it a future tense promise? What about all the righteous from the times before. I believe men were told to do something with their hearts too....Deut 10:16

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.
Deut 10:16

This instructions was spoken to people who had not received as yet the heart of the new creation. If it took regeneration to have this a reality then why the need to give the instruction?

 

There are two types of sanctification, Y1.

One happened at the cross for His elect, the second happens in our lifetime...for the elect.

See my post # 66.

 

Well you see right there though you went off and quoted something out of context. It seems Calvinists do this all the time with Rom 1.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 1:18

All men's hearts were not darkened from birth. They had ample time to glorify God as God and could have done so but resisted and rejected the truth. Any person or culture which persists in rebellion their hearts become darkened, not were absolutely darkened from birth. It says their imaginations became vain....NOT FROM BIRTH Day 1. This is speaking of different cultures at different times where God would eventually give them up to become reprobates.... not at birth! They became fools is a future experience.....again not at birth.

“If the world hates you....." John 15:18 He said the word IF. Did it say EVERYONE in the world will hate you? Or is he saying rather you can expect as a general rule that people living in the worldly system will. Quite a big difference Dave. Some people living in the worldly system won't necessarily hate you. Plain and simple.

And you quote Matt 10:22 ==> And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake..."
Dave by saying "every man at his heart is only ever hating God, you're setting aside context! Two things it's taking primarily about a certain period of time when things will become more so dark. This varies from generation to generation.

Paul even stated in the time of the end perilous times would come. 2 Tim 3:1 Men would become lovers of themselves, boasters, proud ....(and he builds a list) For sure all throughout time from Adam there's been ungodliness HOWEVER....CLEARLY Paul is acknowledging the degree of this varies in different eras, thus the declaration,

"Perilous times will come" Would he say "will come" if it was always the same?

Also keep in mind Matt 10:22 can't mean "all men hate you " in the way you're reading it. One can say of our culture the whole country has turned against Christians and hate believers. Does that mean 100% of every citizen hates them? Jesus couldn't have been meaning that for in the same chapter he says, Matt 10: 40-41 ==> He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He's saying some people in the culture will receive you. How could that be if EVERYONE hated them. So can you cherry pick a verse and say all men in totality hate. I think not.

 

I'm well aware of that but aren't you're willingly choosing to miss the point? The point is not every single person unsaved is wanting to eat up God's people like bread. Some people are content with having a "to each their own" or "live and let live" mentality.

Yes that's worldly wisdom but it does demonstrate that you can't take David's hyperballies absolutely literally. I kindly suggest that's what you do and that's where you err.

Paul's using the poetic, hyperballies of David wasn't to define the depraved nature of men with an exact definition. He gave it rather to encourage Israel to believe and know that THEY TOO are with sin the same of the Gentiles. Paul was basically saying don't condemn them when we're just as guilty. (Romans 2)

And you notice that those are prophetic statements about the new birth, the new heart that hadn't as yet been provided. David lived hundreds of years prior to Ezekiel so can you claim he had this regenerated heart? I think not.

Yes but a thought of not wanting to serve God isn't the same as the actions of not doing so. Read===> Matt 21:28

Yes I agree with that. And that's why Paul pointed this out to his Jewish audience in Romans. To let them know that they too were in need of salvation.

Temptation IS NOT the same as sin. It can be if it's overly mediated upon. Christians have come under condemnation for thoughts that flash across their mind of temptation. That's not sin. Over mediation upon it is. But even if one is tempted not to want to serve God or to come into relationship with him such doesn't mean they hold to that mentality forever and can't repent. Gods convicts all through the gospel and encourages sinners to repent and they can do what he says to do and this is without an irresistible force you'd call irresistible grace.

 

Well Dave I'll let lurkers decide is what anything you say above has any connection whatsoever to my post # 93. Sorry but as for me you purposely didn't even seek to give a fair and reasonable answer. It just seemed you wanted to say something to say something and move on.

No they don't. The coach calls the overall plays. What do you think a time out is?

So do the players of a time to their coach. Sorry but you've been given a perfect analogy of how you should consider the My Sheep hear my voice and you've chosen to reject it.

Oh my gosh! No offense but Dave how do you come off saying such a thing? Here it is in vs 26,
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you...and in vs 37 we see him exhort the same people with the following, But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

That doesn't translate to you that he said they weren't his sheep BUT came back and encouraged them STILL to believe....THAT===> they may KNOW and believe that the Father was in him and he in him? That wouldn't have become the equivalent of them not becoming his sheep? It saddens me that you so blatantly would seek to deny the truth of this. Oh well....what more can be said?

What I shared isn't what the passage clearly stated above? I'll leave lurkers to decide.

Sorry Dave but your confused way of thinking hasn't taken away my clear understanding of this subject and theme. I don't mean to be unkind but if you're going to claim I'm confused I'd suggest you better look in the mirror.

And I wish you well too. Have a nice day!

 

sanctification happens to the saved after salvation, not before it!

 

Do you believe that the Bible teaches "Particular Redemption"?

 

Not if regeneration is preceded by faith.

 

That is a popular interpretation. But according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 sanctification precedes the gospel call. In 1 Peter 1:2 precedes obeying the gospel.

 

That can only happen in sanctification of the work of God's Spirit, not prior to the sanctification of the Spirit.

 

Not according to the word of God.

 

The obedience occurs in sanctification of the Spirit (1 Peter 1:2). As does the gospel call (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

 

It happens at the point of salvation When we are regenerated.

 

I believe that Jesus died for the sake of the elect, and that God election of that person will result in them receiving jesus and get saved, but that before that, the sinner is lost and hell bound!