Featured Justification by faith, like Preterism, not in the creeds. But Biblical

Those who say that Preterism is not a historical position (as my ex-pastor admonished me) need to understand that justification by faith is not "historical" either - that is, neither beliefs are found in creeds. In the Bible, yes, but not in the creeds.

 

Jesus told us that his Second Coming would be fulfilled while those living in the first century were still alive (Matthew 10:23; Matthew 16:27-28; Mathew 26:64; Luke 21:22, 28, 32; Revelation 1:1-3; Revelation 22:6, 12, 20).

No getting around that.

 

Ah yes, Acts 1:9 - 11 the supposed silver bullet that slays preterism. I started thread on this very topic. Feel free to look it up. I would look for it myself and bump it but I am afraid of getting my wrists slapped again for bringing up a zombie thread.

 

I've tried to find the thread or post where I really get into this passage. I found some, but not the one I especially wanted. But here are two links from earlier discussion, including Acts 1:

Zechariah - Christ centred prophecy

Acts 1:9-11 utterly refutes Hyper-preterism

Neither of these are threads I started. Being a "full-blown preterist" I would not have used that last title!

 

Thank you for writing, Dave.

I took the liberty of underlining three parts of your post for convenience.

1 is an acknowledgment on your part that you "see" that there are different types pf seeing in the Bible. Good.

2. Which is more important to you, the evidence of history (always subject to the perspective of fallible historians or memory) or the evidence of God's faultless, perfect Word?

3. Please study when the Bible says the reign of Jesus started. Neither is it a two-phase, already/not yet reign.

I would be more than willing to delve further on any of these.

Thanks for the blessing.

 

Jordan, I don't really know you but it may very well be that I have believed pretty much as you do now for over thirty years. So I pretty much know all about your position. I have taught it, preached it, rebuked preterists along with JWs and Mormons. In my mind they were pretty similar. But one book that got my attention was "The Parousia" by J. Stuart Russell, forward by RC Sproul. At my first reading I wrote angry notes in the margins. But the more I studied the verses he brought up, bearing in mind especially cross-references, the more I began to see that there were serious defects in my eschatology.

I write all this to suggest that maybe you need to look closer into what these verses actually teach. For starters you can look at the two links I brought up in the earlier post.

I have already done my rethinking on Acts 1:11. I suggest you do it too.

 

You need to read more carefully. I don't deny that justification by faith is found in some of the earliest Christian writers. I was speaking of Creeds.

Although Clement (writing in the 60's BTW) wrote well on this doctrine in other writing he was not as clear. A good page to read is in Monergism.com.

The History of Justification by Faith Alone up to the Reformation | Monergism

Mr. Thompson has an interesting sentence at the beginning;

"A clear line of development of this doctrine [of justification by faith alone] from the Apostles to Martin Luther simply does not exist."

I'm not going to bother again getting into Acts 1 with you. I understand your background..

 

Hank, I hope to get to some of this tomorrow. Part of it, at least. You know as well as I that this is well-trodden ground. But you have always been courteous to me so I will do what I can to answer in kind. The part about death, though, I might just do in a new thread.

 

Never. Neither will you. I will be one of the "spirits of just men made perfect".

Have you not read in I Corinthians 15 that we will be like the Lord from heaven.

"The first man is of the earth (ἐκ γῆς), earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven (ἐξ οὐρανοῦ) ."

This passage is a continuation of verse 40: somata epigeia and somata epourania now become "ek ges" and "ex ouranou". This preposition (ek, ex) shows origin. Adam came from the earth, from the dust. This brings to mind the very passage from Genesis.

The "Second Adam" came from heaven. Note: In both cases, the origins determine the essence of who these two are - and (v. 48) the essence of their "followers".

Verse 49 says that "we shall [or "let us"] bear the image of the heavenly man" (the Second Adam, from heaven).

We shall be like Christ. This is Christlikeness, a biblical term.
And what is Christ like - according to this passage? He is like He was when He came to Earth. He is spiritual.
Was Christ fleshly before he came here to Earth? No. He was pure Spirit.
We - according to this passage - will also be like Him.
Pure spirit.

That may seem like an insufficient reward to some, but only because they are unwilling to "think outside the box" (of flesh).

As I wrote earlier, If the perfect God, the everlasting Trinity, had existed forever in spiritual (not physical) form why should it seem a bad thing, likewise, not to have physical bodies?