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Featured Calvinist Confusion

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Jan 9, 2019.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism is just another false, man-made "ism" that pollutes Christianity.
     
    #41 robycop3, Jan 10, 2019
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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    C
    One cannot be in Christ if one is not born. (John 3:5-6) Ephesians 1:4-5 does not say individuals were chosen before they were ever born. It does say that because we are in Christ God chose, before the foundation of the world, that we, who are in Christ, are to be Holy and blameless.
     
    #42 Revmitchell, Jan 10, 2019
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those whom God intends to save will all get saved....
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Jan 10, 2019
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ONLY 2 kinds of people on earth, in Adam, or in Christ!
     
    #44 Yeshua1, Jan 10, 2019
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, far worse would be the theology of easy believing, free will responding!
    The one that Charles Finny and his ilk brought in!
     
    #45 Yeshua1, Jan 10, 2019
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This is why RM. cannot find truth on this 2tim 1:9
     
    #46 Iconoclast, Jan 10, 2019
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    And yet you cannot give a biblical reason for your claim?
     
    #47 Iconoclast, Jan 10, 2019
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  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    As RM continues to deny the Covenant of Redemption he cannot help but posterior after error. To read these posts is to suggest God is on a shopping trip, looking to see someone pick Him first, then He picks them and tucks them into union with Christ, the way you would pick oranges at the supermarket.
     
    #48 Iconoclast, Jan 10, 2019
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I've never actually understood the "easy believism" charge linked to non-Calvinists.

    Ask the Calvinist why he was saved. His conclusion? It's a mystery....nothing to do with him at all. What did he have to do? Nothing.

    Ask the Free-will guy. Because God revealed Himself in a meaningful way and he chose to repent and believe. What did he have to do? The free-will guy actually had to choose to count it all loss and follow God.

    "Free will theology" places so much on the person....I don't think that there is an easier position to believe than Calvinism.
     
    #49 JonC, Jan 10, 2019
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What qualifies you to tell me what I believe?

    Why am I saved? Christ died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and rose again the third day.

    My conclusion is above. Not the false statement you claim to be my conclusion. He saved me according to the good pleasure of His Will.

    What did I have to do? After He regenerated my sin sick soul I had to repent, believe, and obey. All enabled by His Regenerating Grace.

    What did I have to do to earn Salvation? Nothing I do would have been good enough. If by grace it is no more works. If by works it is no more grace.

    What did you do to earn your salvation?
     
    #50 TCassidy, Jan 10, 2019
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You telling me what you believe insofar as men not contributing to their own salvation. Unless you changed your mind (and from your reply I see you haven't), then my assessment is correct. In terms of salvation, you believe that you have brought nothing to the table.

    I didn't do any thing to "earn" my salvation.
     
    #51 JonC, Jan 10, 2019
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To clarify:

    Calvinism is "easy believism" insofar as men go. Most :rolleyes: Calvinists I have encountered believe that God's grace in salvation is not overruled by man. Most seem to at least mildly suggest that they did nothing in terms of contributing to their salvation. I am sure there are exceptions, but most appear to me to imply that they did not choose God but He chose them and did the work of changing them.

    Again, this is only based on my experience dealing with Calvinists. I have taken other things away from my dealings with Calvinists that cause ne pause, but I agree with them on this part....hence my post.

    The idea that men must contribute to their faith seems to place a requirement on man that most Calvinsts (all I know) reject. Calvinism is easire as it does not place a demand on man to contribute to his own salvation (excluding Calvinists who may believe otherwise, of course).

    My objection was not God saving people but people linking "easy believism" to non-Calvinism (as evidenced by me quoting the post I was addressing).
     
    #52 JonC, Jan 10, 2019
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, it isn't. Once again you just make this stuff up as you go along.

    Quote one post of mine where I said "why he was saved. His conclusion? It's a mystery..."
     
    #53 TCassidy, Jan 10, 2019
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hardest theology to hold with though, as it forces us to be reminded and mindful that we can and did NOTHING to save us, and human pride and will demands that we do something in the cause to get us saved us!
     
    #54 Yeshua1, Jan 10, 2019
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The better question would be to non cal, why did God choose to save you, and not your neighbor?
     
    #55 Yeshua1, Jan 10, 2019
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am a non-Cal. My answer is that's God's business. It's above our paygrade. The "why" is a mystery known only to God. At the same time, it is because the neighbor doesn't believe.
     
    #56 JonC, Jan 10, 2019
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    #57 JonC, Jan 10, 2019
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  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    One quote, completely out of context, using the word "mystery" in a way not even close to what you claim. Just as I suspected.
     
    #58 TCassidy, Jan 10, 2019
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What I was claiming is that the Calvinist does not know why God chose him and chalks that up to "mystery". I am using the word "mystery" to mean something God has not revealed to man and therefore beyond our knowledge.

    This is EXACTLY what I was claiming:
    Again - this "mystery" is EXACTLY what I am saying
    What you are doing is trying to play games. I could do this here:
    I am a non-Calvinist. How can you pretend to tell me what I believe???? Prove that I like to assert that I was saved by "my faith" not acknowledging even that was a work of God.

    (I suspect you are simply being disagreeable rather than there being an actual disagreement. I believe you know this. But perhaps you don't.).
     
    #59 JonC, Jan 10, 2019
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Again, and I'm sure I posted this somewhere...

    I'm not sure what a "Calvinist" is, since I've never run across anyone who adheres strictly to the teachings of John Calvin, except perhaps some "Reformed" folks.
    In the strictest sense then, I am a "non-Calvinist", since I don't agree with everything he taught or wrote.
    Now...I do know people, and even whole churches, that adhere strictly to the teachings of John Wesley, and they're called "Wesleyans" and "Methodists".

    I don't know of any churches named, "Heritage Calvinist Church" for example...but we have a "franchised one" in my area called "Heritage Wesleyan", which has changed its name to just "Heritage Church".
    They have "campuses".;)

    But, I disgress...
    Since people would label me a "Calvinist", this is the reason that I am saved:

    " Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
    4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.    " ( Ephesians 1:3-6 )

    That is why I am saved, according to God's word.
    I don't chalk it up to mystery, per se, it's just a mystery to me why God would bother with a slug like me.:Sick
     
    #60 Dave G, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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