Saying what you believe is clearer than saying Calvinist

[Baptist4life]

"God preordained...a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation. " John Calvin

 

[mets65]

I would like for a Calvinist here to explain to me, without any negative comments from anyone else, what the Calvinistic view of predestination is. I don't want to start a debate over that, just an explanation.

 

[Baptist4life]

I'd like to know how Calvinists get around this verse:

2 Peter 3:9 (King James Version)

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Amy.G]

I'd like to know how Calvinists get around this verse:

2 Peter 3:9 (King James Version)

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I can answer that. They refer you to the word "us-ward" saying God is not willing that any of "us" perish. The "us" being the elect only.

 

[mets65]

I can answer that. They refer you to the word "us-ward" saying God is not willing that any of "us" perish. The "us" being the elect only.

But if Irresistible Grace is true then that couldn't be possible correct?


I do feel like us non-cals don't have to bend scripture or "say what it means" to get our point across. We just read the verse and take it as literal.

 

[Tom Butler]

I'd like to know how Calvinists get around this verse:

2 Peter 3:9 (King James Version)

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Here 'tis.

The key word is "us-ward." We (us) are the objects of his long-suffering. We are the objects of his promise. God is not willing that any of US should perish, but that all of US should come to repentance.

Peter is writing to believers.

Oops, I just noticed that Amy had answered the question.

Never mind.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I'm just trying to learn more about it for my personal knowledge, not for the purpose of judgement.

Allow me to make a suggestion for you. Get together with a pastor who is a Calvinist over coffee. Develop a friendship with him. Over time talk over what you each believe. I am not a Calvinist, but talking over coffee at starbucks is a much better way to learn and you'll find a new friend with whom to fellowship over the 95% of what we agree together about. The added plus is that you will delete the name calling and false hoods about each position.

 

[Tom Butler]

But if Irresistible Grace is true then that couldn't be possible correct?


I do feel like us non-cals don't have to bend scripture or "say what it means" to get our point across. We just read the verse and take it as literal.

How is it not correct. What does it have to do with irresistible grace?

You're suggesting that we have to put a Calvinist "spin" on 2 Peter 3:9

I suggest that one who reads that verse and takes it literally will come to the same conclusion I do. No interpretation or exegesis is required.

 

[mets65]

Here 'tis.

The key word is "us-ward." We (us) are the objects of his long-suffering. We are the objects of his promise. God is not willing that any of US should perish, but that all of US should come to repentance.

Peter is writing to believers.

Oops, I just noticed that Amy had answered the question.

Never mind.

Here's a study that my step-grandfather wrote about Calvinism.

http://www.biblebelieversbaptist.net/primitive_baptist.html

 

[Baptist4life]

I know a Calvinist who evangelizes and witnesses. I have to ask him........why? God has already picked His people out according to Calvinism, so why witness? It's mind boggling. NO, I DO NOT believe in Calvinism, I repeat...........It's un-Biblical. I guess I'm floored that there are Baptists who do believe in it. Never knew any before.

 

[HankD]

Here 'tis.

The key word is "us-ward." We (us) are the objects of his long-suffering. We are the objects of his promise. God is not willing that any of US should perish, but that all of US should come to repentance.

Peter is writing to believers.

Oops, I just noticed that Amy had answered the question.

Never mind.

OK, I'll play the _____ 's (fill in the blank) Advocate again.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​

Here are a group of folk who were "bought" by the Lord yet suffered destruction.​

Same inspired author, same book, same root word apoluo.

These (though "bought" by the Lord) he speaks of as having frustrated the will of our Sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, omipresent Father in heaven as did the false prophets of old.

The point is that they were "bought" yet somehow they are scheduled to undergo destuction (perish).

Remember, I'm assuming the role of the _____'s (fill in the blank) Advocate.

HankD​

 

[TCassidy]

You posted a response to B4L:


Which resulted in my post of:



Now you are apparently accusing B4L of being lost

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did not accuse B4L or anyone else of being lost. I asked if he denies "Salvation is of the LORD."

and you also accuse me of not caring for the lost since B4L was the subject of your post about lost people.

When you mock "Salvation is of the LORD" by posting sleepy icons I had to ask.

This is against board rules.

Asking honest questions is against Board Rules? I have read them all and did not see that one.

And just because someone is not a Calvinist does not mean they "deny that salvation is of the Lord" so I posted :sleep: instead of trying to be nice.

I see. Perhaps you failed to understand the point.

Calvinism = Salvation is of the LORD.
Arminianism = Salvation is started by the LORD but completed by me.

So, the question, which does not question anyone's salvation, is valid.

 

[TCassidy]

I would like for a Calvinist here to explain to me, without any negative comments from anyone else, what the Calvinistic view of predestination is. I don't want to start a debate over that, just an explanation.

Predestination would be covered by "Unconditional Election." There is nothing good enough in man to merit salvation. God, for His own purposes and according to His Perfect Will, elects men to salvation and leaves others in their sin, justly condemned for their sin.

The "why" of that is a mystery known only to God. His ways are higher than our ways. He shows mercy on whom He will show mercy.

I don't know why, but I do know it is not due to any merit on my part.

 

[TCassidy]

I'd like to know how Calvinists get around this verse:

2 Peter 3:9 (King James Version)

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Look who is being address. "to us-ward" to "toward us." All the elect (us) will come to Christ and none (of us) will ever be lost.

 

[glfredrick]

I still don't completely understand what Calvinism is yet.

And, likely, you will not ever really get to understand it because of all the flack that flies around about the position. Especially here on the board.

It JUST has to be something evil... :BangHead:

 

[TCassidy]

I know a Calvinist who evangelizes and witnesses. I have to ask him........why?

Because God commands it.

God has already picked His people out according to Calvinism, so why witness?

Because God uses the foolishness of preaching as the means to draw the elect unto Himself.

It's mind boggling.

Actually it is pretty simple.

NO, I DO NOT believe in Calvinism, I repeat...........It's un-Biblical.

No, Calvinism is biblical. Salvation is of the LORD.

I guess I'm floored that there are Baptists who do believe in it. Never knew any before.

What floors me is that there are Baptists who think God needs their help in order to save them.

 

[Amy.G]

TCassidy, you said to me:

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did not accuse B4L or anyone else of being lost. I asked if he denies "Salvation is of the LORD."

No sir, you did not ask if he denies salvation is of the Lord. You made a statement.

So you deny that "Salvation is of the LORD"

I do not have a reading comprehension problem. Maybe you have a punctuation problem?

 

[TCassidy]

TCassidy, you said to me:
No sir, you did not ask if he denies salvation is of the Lord. You made a statement.

No, Amy, I asked a question. I am so sorry that I left off the question mark. I just got out of the hospital after a week long stay in the Cardiac Intensive Care unit. I am still pretty weak and shaky and my typing obviously suffered from that weakness. But, nevertheless, it was a question.

I do not have a reading comprehension problem. Maybe you have a punctuation problem?

No, what I have is a serious heart problem. I apologize for my continuing weakness which results in such poor typing. If the Baptist Board would allow me to go back and edit my post I would, but for some reason the dictatorial web master refuses to allow us editing rights over our own posts except for a very short period of time. Unfortunately, just as I posted that reply the nurse came in to draw blood and flush my heparin lock. By the time I got back to the BB I could no longer edit my post. I wonder if the web master know that his rule may violate the Federal ADA laws?

 

[Amy.G]

No, Amy, I asked a question. I am so sorry that I left off the question mark. I just got out of the hospital after a week long stay in the Cardiac Intensive Care unit. I am still pretty weak and shaky and my typing obviously suffered from that weakness. But, nevertheless, it was a question.No, what I have is a serious heart problem. I apologize for my continuing weakness which results in such poor typing. If the Baptist Board would allow me to go back and edit my post I would, but for some reason the dictatorial web master refuses to allow us editing rights over our own posts except for a very short period of time. Unfortunately, just as I posted that reply the nurse came in to draw blood and flush my heparin lock. By the time I got back to the BB I could no longer edit my post. I wonder if the web master know that his rule may violate the Federal ADA laws?

I am very sorry for your illness.

Even if posed as a question, it is very offensive.

 

[TCassidy]

I am very sorry for your illness.

Even if posed as a question, it is very offensive.

Why do you find an honest question offensive?