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John 1: verse 12...alone? or does 1:13 explain it?
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All scripture is profitable...just because it was written to Israel does not mean it is no longer applicable. If that’s the case, then the entire OT needs ripped out of our bibles. Also, notice Israel’s enemies were not mentioned in that verse?
No....I believe all mankind was considered as dead and under
Gods wrath because of the fall. God the Father in mercy elected a multitude of such persons to be the objects of His love and saving grace.
They are given to Jesus.
Jesus comes to seek and save THOSE lost sheep.
The gospel promises are proclaimed to sinners.
Only those elected will be effectually drawn.
The others having no desire for holiness of life will continue on in their sin. God does not force them out, they have no desire to seek the true and living God on His terms
The unsaved can be religious but cannot cease from the bondage to sin. They have a legalistic form of religion that cannot save
That is why no non elect person will ever be saved
Election from eternity past is already finished.
We proclaim the truth and those allowed to hear by a God given new heart will come.
Yes exactlyAll scripture is profitable...just because it was written to Israel does not mean it is no longer applicable. If that’s the case, then the entire OT needs ripped out of our bibles. Also, notice Israel’s enemies were not mentioned in that verse?
Of course their were things written to this person. Or that nation directly....but all scripture is written for our learning, 1 cor10, Roman's 15:4
Don't be ridiculous. I could make a list of Old Testament dietary laws, or health laws, or other lifestyle laws that are no longer applicable.
Leviticus 19:20 “If a man lies sexually with a woman who is a slave, assigned to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, a distinction shall be made. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free; 21 but he shall bring his compensation to the Lord, to the entrance of the tent of meeting, a ram for a guilt offering. 22 And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the Lord for his sin that he has committed, and he shall be forgiven for the sin that he has committed.
Overreact much? Take it for what it says in context. Doesn't need to be ripped out of the Bible.
Lost sheep? How did they get Lost? When Christ said ;
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Scripture clearly says Christ came to save the Lost. Not lost sheep. Sheep are who belongs to Christ.
Sheep are already saved.
Could you be good enough to show me just where in scripture it says this.
Are you saying that they have no chance to be saved. even if they were to believe in Christ, because they were not elect?
I could not ever believe such a thing simply based on one thing. None of what you have told me is in scripture.
God's terms for His free gift of Salvation are simple They are to Believe in Christ. Nothing else is required.
MB
Where does scripture say this at. Christ came to save the lost not the saved already.
Condemned is the exact opposite of being justified. To be condemned is to be dead in the first Adam. To be justified is to be alive in Christ, the last Adam.
I could be wrong--but I don't think I am--you won't find the phrase 'dead in Adam' anywhere in scripture. It's just another Calvinist construct to try to bolster their theology.
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1 Corinthians 15:22, Ephesians 2:1, Romans 5:12.
Doesn't say anything about anyone being "born dead in Adam." Fail.
1 Cor. 15:22 addresses since Adam sinned he was subject to physical death, so are we all subject to physical death.
Romans 5:12 says essentially the same thing.
Eph. 2:1 is about being spiritually dead in trespasses and sin, which is the point you're trying to make, but says nothing about Adam.
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We are born in Adam, every blasted one of us. You are promoting Pelagianism, where ppl are born tabula rasa.
You are resorting to name calling because you can't support your argument. People are not "born dead in Adam". People are born dead in sin. And, yes, Adam's sin causes us all to die.
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And that sin was from Adam, seeing we had not committed any sins ourselves personally.
He represented us and when he sinned, we sinned, being in Adam.
I said you were promoting Pelagianism, and that’s not calling you or anyone a name.
Done with talking to you. Enjoy your false equivalency phrase, "born dead in Adam."
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Here is an opportunity to attempt it and yet no one seems to be able to step up....
I THINK WE KNOW WHY
Well, they get hung up on the word 'world'. To them, that word means 'everybody whoever lived, all w/o exception'. Yet, I can only find one place(not saying there aren't other places, I just haven't found them yet) that 'world' means everybody w/o exception, all whoever lived.
He was in the world,
and the world was created through Him,
yet the world did not recognize Him.[John 1:10]
Ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἦν, καὶ ὁ κόσμος δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ ὁ κόσμος αὐτὸν οὐκ ἔγνω[John 1:10 SBLGNT]
kosmo is used once and kosmos is used twice, which does mean 'world'. Now, let's break this verse down...
He was in the world...
So, this is referring to His time here on earth, during His earthly ministry. So, by using their logic, He was with all whoever lived, all w/o exception, while He was living here on earth. But that is not the case, so kosmo here can not mean all whoever lived, all w/o exception.
and the world was created through Him,
Here is the one place where I think 'world' means all whoever lived, all w/o exception, seeing that everything created, including us, He created[John 1:3].
yet the world did not recognize Him.
Again, by using their logic, all whoever lived, all w/o exception, did not recognize Him...even those of us who were born after He ascended to the Father. Even those who walked with Him, served, worshipped and praised Him, did not recognize Him, if 'world' means all whoever lived, all w/o exception.
“For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.[John 3:16]
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν "υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλὰ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Kosmon is used here which is another form of kosmos and it means world as well.
Now, if 'world' means all whoever lived, all w/o exception, then we see the Christ going rogue at Gethsamane. He prays "I pray for them. I am not praying for the world but for those You have given Me, because they are Yours."[John 17:9]
ἐγὼ περὶ αὐτῶν ἐρωτῶ· οὐ περὶ τοῦ κόσμου ἐρωτῶ ἀλλὰ περὶ ὧν δέδωκάς μοι, ὅτι σοί εἰσιν,
Kosmou is another form of kosmos and it also means world. With God, we have a triune Godhead, a Trinity, that is in complete agreement, absolute harmony with each other, with no discord whatsoever. But here Jesus is not praying for the world. By using their logic, He is not praying for all whoever lived, all w/o exception, and is not praying for those the Father loves, if He loves the world and world means all whoever lived, all w/o exception.
So, they are advocating a Trinity that is at odds with each other.
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