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What brings unity among brethren?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Does the bible teach doctrine is given to bring unity?
    Or is doctrine to divide?
    Some might suggest that when brothers are united in doctrine it is not doctrine that keeps them unified.
    They might suggest these persons are held together by being dishonest, or untruthful in some kind of conspiracy :oops:
    This might be a bit of a stretch:Redface
    So is it doctrine or something else?
     
  2. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Bible doctrine does two things....Divides.....and unifies.
     
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    #3 Iconoclast, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    The word is a sword...Hebrews 4:12, Revelation 1:16, Ephesians 6:17.

    Jesus also said He did not come to bring peace but a sword[Matthew 10:34].

    Being in Christ is what brings unity.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    So SG,
    Are you suggesting that this unity of heart and doctrine is what causes people to group themselves together with like minded brothers, as not a neferious desire to be dishonest, lie,be untruthful , unfaithful, untrustworthy?
    Those not sharing confessional beliefs might conjure up such ideas in the heat of the battle?
     
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In the providence of God today, Pastor Murray Brett of Commerce Ga. offered this thought on facebook

    ; ON DIVISION CAUSED BY BEING THEORETICALLY TRINITARIAN AND THEORETICALLY CHRIST-CENTERED!
    The way which we in our different groups have our particular gravitas or emphasis is causing division, not solving it. The Reformed community has come to be increasingly only theoretically Trinitarian, and theoretically Christocentric. Reformed orthodox academics emphasize truth and doctrine--- and "God, the Father" is primary.

    Reformed broad evangelicals emphasize the gospel-- and "God, the Son" is primary.

    "Reformed Charismatics" emphasize high emotional experiences-- and "God, the Spirit" is primary.

    Kept indissolubly together such emphasis is the source of spiritual life and vitality among us. Separate the Trinity and it produces spiritual death among us, death meaning "alienation from God and the life of God" and the inevitable consequence of alienation from one another.

    You cannot find this kind of separation of the Trinity in Calvin, Luther, the Puritans (with the exception of Richard Baxter), 18th century Scottish Presbyterians who followed "the Marrow tradition", 19th and 20th century men like Spurgeon, William Jay, and Octavius Winslow in the UK, and B. M. Palmer, John Murray, and James Dagg in the US.

    One of the clearest examples of being "experimentally Trinitarian and Christocentric" for communion with God and His People to make God’s name great among the nations (Covenant Prologue) is "Our God" by Octavius Winslow.

    In it, Winslow can't speak of one member of the Trinity without speaking of each, and even then, Christ's atoning work is central to bring in Everlasting Righteousness to establish God as the Only Just One and the Justifier of the ungodly to build His Everlasting Kingdom.

    Being experimentally Trinitarian and Christocentric for communion with God and His people is the answer

    for our prevailing legal-righteousness, the elevation of self and groups above others, and the division that such self-righteousness and self-elevation and group-righteousness and group-elevation causes.

    Being "blind and drunk with self-love because we create standards of measure of our own making” (Institutes, 2.7.6), individual-standards, family-standards, and group-standards of legal-righteousness is a far greater problem than any of us realize. The very extensive problem of our legal-righteousness makes being clothed in Christ's righteousness experientially for communion with God and all fellow-believers is one of the greatest needs of the hour.

    Without being clothed in Christ experientially, we can never move away from our mercenary self-interests and our mercenary group-interests. And if we don’t move away from legality and the mercenary interests caused by legality, together, we will plunge the world into even greater darkness. We are terribly turned in upon our individual-self and our group-selves, but elevating Christ and His righteousness will surely turn us outside our individual-self and our group-selves. Elevating Christ and His righteousness above our own, not theoretically but truly and experientially, for communion with our Triune God and one another must be our concerted and constant aim in order to participate in "winning the day" for Christ! Seeking to live upon Christ for Trinitarian communion with God and all of you!



    This charge was recently made against the Calvinists on this board, [with dissolving ink evidently} as it was removed. Nevertheless, the charge was made, and even if externally withdrawn it lingers beneath the surface.
    Is this charge valid in part? Is it valid to say that those holding to God's grace are not seeking to elevate the righteousness of Christ?
     
    #6 Iconoclast, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We must see that there are cardinal doctrines that all must hold with to be part of th Body, and others that we can still disagree upon!

    Both Calvin and Wesley are in heaven now, and Jesus corrected both of their theological errors already!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Its not Calvinists vrs Non Calvinists, its those in the Kingdom of Jesus vrs those in Kingdom of Satan!
     
  9. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    You think this will get someone in heaven ?

    However Wesley made the following statement in his book The Works of the Reverend John Wesley:

    “…And the virtue of this free gift the merits of Christ’s life and death are applied to us in baptism. “He gave himself for the Church that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word;” Eph. v, 25, 26; namely in baptism the ordinary instrument of our justification. Agreeably to this our Church prays in the baptismal office that the person to be baptized may be washed and sanctified by the Holy Ghost and being delivered from God’s wrath receive remission of sins and enjoy the everlasting benediction of his heavenly washing…”

    Or this :

    “.By water then as a means the water of baptism we are regenerated or born again

    Wesley believed in works and water salvation.
     
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  10. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Wesley likely kept this type of language from his former church--the Church of England.
    The Church of England makers of the KJV would have used similar languages. Would you also suggest that they were not saved?
     
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  11. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    I only know about Wesley’s words......peoples words that may or may not exist who knows ?

    I take it you agree with Wesley ?
     
  12. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I did not at all suggest that I agreed with Wesley. I merely pointed out the likely source for his views.
     
  13. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    No you didn’t you proposed a what if senario .

    I think you are a closet water salvationist or you wouldn’t have raied a what if senario why dont you Come out?
     
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You show that you think incorrectly or jump to a bogus, false opinion. Your claim is simply not true.
    Previously I have pointed out the incorrect baptismal regeneration teaching of the Church of England.
     
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  15. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    What are you talking about ?? Previously ??

    You are off topic anyway......are you feeling ok ?

    I didn’t mean to provoke you by posting Wesleys words .
     
  16. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    What is doctrine to one person may not be doctrine to another.

    For example - when I grew up in church - we would have communion.
    Nothing was ever said anything about open or closed.

    When I arrived in Germany - I visited a church that was communion.
    I was caught by surprised at this doctrine.

    The church explained to me their view of the doctrine.
    After a study of the issue, I came to the conclusion of open communion.

    Thus - that church would not allow me to take communion- unless I joined
    I ended up joining the SBC church which was open. So if someone from the
    other church visited our SBC, he would be invited to take communion -
    but I would assume he would not - since that was a doctrine to him

    Thoughts?



    and Please do NOT make this a discussion if open or closed is the doctrine.
     
  17. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Looks like Doctrine both divided and unified.
     
  18. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    It is necessary for doctrine to divide when the stakes are truth vs. error. Chrisitan unity can only be had in truth.
     
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  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    but when both parties believe that they teach the truth?
     
  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Then they have unity within their own fellowship. The reality is that Christians divide over doctrine. Ask an Arminian Free Will Baptist to cozy up to Reformed Covenantal Baptist theology and vice versa. There are times when our differences are a reason to break fellowship with each other. That is is why there are so many denominations.
     
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