What brings unity among brethren?

[Salty]

Then they have unity within their own fellowship. The reality is that Christians divide over doctrine. Ask an Arminian Free Will Baptist to cozy up to Reformed Covenantal Baptist theology and vice versa. There are times when our differences are a reason to break fellowship with each other. That is is why there are so many denominations.

but then again -it can depend on the circumstances.

I had a Free-will Baptist church call me to be pastor - as they had been without one for a while
and we did disagree with some of the doctrines - esp free Will

I was pastor for about 6 months.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So SG,
Are you suggesting that this unity of heart and doctrine is what causes people to group themselves together with like minded brothers, as not a neferious desire to be dishonest, lie,be untruthful , unfaithful, untrustworthy?
Those not sharing confessional beliefs might conjure up such ideas in the heat of the battle?

Exactly

 

[Reformed]

but then again -it can depend on the circumstances.

I had a Free-will Baptist church call me to be pastor - as they had been without one for a while
and we did disagree with some of the doctrines - esp free Will

I was pastor for about 6 months.

I suppose if we are talking about anecdotal one-offs, then OK. In general, doctrine causes Christians to separate into groups.

 

[Forever Settled]

You show that you think incorrectly or jump to a bogus, false opinion. Your claim is simply not true.
Previously I have pointed out the incorrect baptismal regeneration teaching of the Church of England.

I posted Wesley’s words where he said he believes in water baptism for salvation. YOU got all worked up.

What Do YOU believe ? Do YOU believe like Wesley ?

Tell us what is the Gospel ?
Tell us what washes away sin ?

Tell us if there is any difference between you and Wesley’s belief ?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Tell us what washes away sin ?

Oooooh....oooooh....ooooooh! I know the answer to this!

One of my favorite songs tells it like it is...Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[Iconoclast]

What is doctrine to one person may not be doctrine to another.

For example - when I grew up in church - we would have communion.
Nothing was ever said anything about open or closed.

When I arrived in Germany - I visited a church that was communion.
I was caught by surprised at this doctrine.

The church explained to me their view of the doctrine.
After a study of the issue, I came to the conclusion of open communion.

Thus - that church would not allow me to take communion- unless I joined
I ended up joining the SBC church which was open. So if someone from the
other church visited our SBC, he would be invited to take communion -
but I would assume he would not - since that was a doctrine to him

Thoughts?



and Please do NOT make this a discussion if open or closed is the doctrine.

A local church should have a confession of faith. Then when they follow it visitors can know what to expect.
If they have different beliefs from you it does not mean they are liars or dishonest. We need to judge righteous judgment...not a self righteous legal standard that we judge them by.

 

[Iconoclast]

but when both parties believe that they teach the truth?

If the church is confessional they have a basis to show how the other view is defective scripturally. The scriptural base the confession offers can be used as a plumbline.
Those who oppose will complain,and bear false witness if they cannot answer to the scriptures offered. We see this on message boards where there exists a mix of confessional and non confessional persons.
Confessional persons often find a degree of unity that non confessional persons lack. Even coming from separate local churches a common confession helps unite them in keeping Christ righteousness first more then individual novelties and twisting of scripture. We see that from time to time here on BB.

 

[The Biblicist]

Being in Christ is what brings unity.

Being "in Christ" positionally brings only justification
Being "in Christ" symbolically refers to baptism and the Lord's Supper
Being "in Christ" metaphorically refers to membership in the metaphorical body of Christ - the congregation where doctrinal unity exists and must exist for the congregation to continue to exist
Being "in Christ" purposefully refers to election before the world
Being "in Christ" experientially brings practical

 

[The Biblicist]

but when both parties believe that they teach the truth?

Sincerety should not be confused with unity and when both parties disagree with each other that is not unity.

 

[Dave G]

Oooooh....oooooh....ooooooh! I know the answer to this!

Willis,
Calm yourself.

One of my favorite songs tells it like it is...Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Exactly;
Praise God for His Son's sacrifice, because without it, we ( like Israel ) would all be undone ( Isaiah 1:8, Romans 9:29 ).

 

[Dave G]

Does the bible teach doctrine is given to bring unity?
Or is doctrine to divide?
Some might suggest that when brothers are united in doctrine it is not doctrine that keeps them unified.
They might suggest these persons are held together by being dishonest, or untruthful in some kind of conspiracy
This might be a bit of a stretch
So is it doctrine or something else?

It's something else...the presence of the Holy Spirit in a person.

The Bible teaches that sound doctrine is given to instruct the body ( Titus 2:1-10 ).
In and of itself, I don't believe that it brings unity...but rather, that it is a mark of fidelity and of God's presence among a group of professing believers.

Doctrine divides...

It divides the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the children of God from the children of the Devil ( Matthew 10:24-29 ).
It is developed from the rightly-divided word of God, not from the words of men.
False doctrine is developed from the twisted, wrongly-divided words of God, combined with the Scriptural misunderstandings of men.

However, there is something deeper to be considered, than simply the differences among professing believers:

1) False doctrine comes from the Devil ( 1 Timothy 4:1 ) and it has a purpose ( 1 Corinthians 11:19 ) and an effect; It also takes advantage of the believer's weakness as a babe ( Ephesians 4:14 ), but in the end, it cannot prevail ( John 8:47, John 10:27 ).
The remedy is to immerse one's self in the word of the Saviour ( 2 Timothy 2:15-16, 1 Peter 2:1-2 ), and gain the understanding that comes from both it, and the Holy Spirit's guidance ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

2) The spiritual realm works through people.
God's people have the Holy Ghost within them ( Romans 8:9-11 ), and He works through them ( Philippians 2:13 ) to accomplish what is needed in the body ( Ephesians 4:11-16 ).
Satan's children have their own spirit ( Ephesians 2:2 ), and it guides them to wreak spiritual havoc wherever they can...false teachers come from among us, and are deceived into believing that what they are teaching is the truth ( Matthew 7:15-20, Luke 6:43-45, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1:3-4 ); Believers shall know them by their fruits ( Galatians 5:19-23 ).

" For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. " ( Ephesians 6:12 )

False teachers are what Satan uses in his attempts to divide the body of Christ, plain and simple.



True unity exists in the presence of truth, and the absence of division...
Unfortunately, with Satan's successes down through the centuries, I don't believe that true unity can exist in the visible body of ( outwardly ) professing believers in the world today.
It is a statistical impossibility, given the circumstances, for the whole ( outwardly professing ) body of Christ to ever reach agreement on anything, permanently.

Why?

False teachers, tares, false doctrines, etc. literally infest visible churches everywhere, from my perspective.
That independent small groups come together in unity in the truth, is testament to the power of God, not the work of men.

Yes, doctrine divides.
No, unity is not dependent on the capriciousness of men and their teachings, nor the power of men and their efforts to unify.
Denominations are the result of Satan's work through his children...and outwardly they are "of men."
The differences come from Satan's work, not God's work.


In the end, only God's people will ever agree on the truth, because only God's people know it ( 1 John 2:20-21 ).

 

[Iconoclast]

It's something else...the presence of the Holy Spirit in a person.

The Bible teaches that sound doctrine is given to instruct the body ( Titus 2:1-10 ).
In and of itself, I don't believe that it brings unity...but rather, that it is a mark of fidelity and of God's presence among a group of professing believers.

Doctrine divides...

It divides the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the children of God from the children of the Devil ( Matthew 10:24-29 ).
It is developed from the rightly-divided word of God, not from the words of men.
False doctrine is developed from the twisted, wrongly-divided words of God, combined with the Scriptural misunderstandings of men.

However, there is something deeper to be considered, than simply the differences among professing believers:

1) False doctrine comes from the Devil ( 1 Timothy 4:1 ) and it has a purpose ( 1 Corinthians 11:19 ) and an effect; It also takes advantage of the believer's weakness as a babe ( Ephesians 4:14 ), but in the end, it cannot prevail ( John 8:47, John 10:27 ).
The remedy is to immerse one's self in the word of the Saviour ( 2 Timothy 2:15-16, 1 Peter 2:1-2 ), and gain the understanding that comes from both it, and the Holy Spirit's guidance ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

2) The spiritual realm works through people.
God's people have the Holy Ghost within them ( Romans 8:9-11 ), and He works through them ( Philippians 2:13 ) to accomplish what is needed in the body ( Ephesians 4:11-16 ).
Satan's children have their own spirit ( Ephesians 2:2 ), and it guides them to wreak spiritual havoc wherever they can...false teachers come from among us, and are deceived into believing that what they are teaching is the truth ( Matthew 7:15-20, Luke 6:43-45, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1:3-4 ); Believers shall know them by their fruits ( Galatians 5:19-23 ).

" For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. " ( Ephesians 6:12 )

False teachers are what Satan uses in his attempts to divide the body of Christ, plain and simple.



True unity exists in the presence of truth, and the absence of division...
Unfortunately, with Satan's successes down through the centuries, I don't believe that true unity can exist in the visible body of ( outwardly ) professing believers in the world today.
It is a statistical impossibility, given the circumstances, for the whole ( outwardly professing ) body of Christ to ever reach agreement on anything, permanently.

Why?

False teachers, tares, false doctrines, etc. literally infest visible churches everywhere, from my perspective.
That independent small groups come together in unity in the truth, is testament to the power of God, not the work of men.

Yes, doctrine divides.
No, unity is not dependent on the capriciousness of men and their teachings, nor the power of men and their efforts to unify.
Denominations are the result of Satan's work through his children...and outwardly they are "of men."
The differences come from Satan's work, not God's work.


In the end, only God's people will ever agree on the truth, because only God's people know it ( 1 John 2:20-21 ).

Yes, you mentioned eph4:11-16.
All of the ministry gifts given to the church deal with protecting the sheep by means of a proper teaching of the weird of God.
False teaching is to he identified and dealt with.

 

[Forever Settled]

You show that you think incorrectly or jump to a bogus, false opinion.

You were all upset about the Wesley quote I posed and went on a tirade .....why don’t you clear up the confusion YOU started. .

What brings unity among brethren?

 

[Logos1560]

You were all upset about the Wesley quote I posed and went on a tirade .....why don’t you clear up the confusion YOU started. .

I did not start any confusion as you incorrectly allege. I was not upset about the Wesley quote. Pointing out the likely source of Wesley's language is not suggesting that I was upset. You keep jumping to incorrect, wrong opinions that you do not prove to be true. Your incorrect allegations against me may suggest a tirade on your part.

 

[Forever Settled]

I did not start any confusion as you incorrectly allege. I was not upset about the Wesley quote. Pointing out the likely source of Wesley's language is not suggesting that I was upset. You keep jumping to incorrect, wrong opinions that you do not prove to be true. Your incorrect allegations against me may suggest a tirade on your part.

So out of the clear blue YOU jump up and down about a quote from a water salvationists I posted.

And now you are avoiding clearing things up about YOUR beliefs....wow.

What brings unity among brethren?

 

[Heretic Hunter]

So out of the clear blue YOU jump up and down about a quote from a water salvationists I posted.

And now you are avoiding clearing things up about YOUR beliefs....wow.

What brings unity among brethren?

Forever Settled, when someone is unwilling to make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ; the Gospel; how they define Jesus to be, in their own words, using the Bible to demonstrate evidence of their faith to even prove that he is a Christian, raises red flags.

Are we not supposed to give a reason for the hope that is within us? Are we not supposed to give an answer to someone that asks us what we believe? Is it not scriptural to "try the spirits" to determine if they are of God or not? Is everyone that "calls himself a brother," truly a "Brother"? Or one that is a "Teacher" a true teacher or a false teacher to stir up contentions, division, and strife? Did Jesus Christ not come to set a division between Believers and unbelievers?

 

[JonC]

but when both parties believe that they teach the truth?

I think there is a unity among believers, a unity in Christ. In your example the man accustomed to closed communion should follow his convistions while allowing that SBC to follow theirs (and vice versa). One should not encourage another to sin.

The Word is not described as a sword dividing Christians from Christians. The doctrine that divides believers from one another may be significant and important but this is never the true gospel. God's kingdom is simply not set against itself. But we do acknowledge differences in doctrine and interpretation.

If our authority is Scripture (in terms of what is written) then there is agreement at least in the words that govern our faith. Christians can discuss interpretation with the presupposition each accepts Scripture. They can do so without insisting their traditions, interpretations, or doctrine is correct because the topic discussed is the Biblical text (explanations are subjective, Scripture itself is not).

I think a good rule of thumb is that if your gospel divides you from other people who are true Christians then one of two things are true: either you hold a false gospel or you hold the gospel falsely.

 

[Logos1560]

So out of the clear blue YOU jump up and down about a quote from a water salvationists I posted.

And now you are avoiding clearing things up about YOUR beliefs..

You continue to make incorrect allegations that you do not prove to be true. You are the one who may be trying to confuse by your own incorrect allegations. There is nothing to clear up about my Bible-believing, fundamentalist, independent Baptist beliefs.

 

[Logos1560]

when someone is unwilling to make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ; the Gospel; how they define Jesus to be, in their own words, using the Bible to demonstrate evidence of their faith to even prove that he is a Christian, raises red flags.

I have already made my profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is not my responsibility to support a poster violating his word to follow forum rules as he improperly tries to question the salvation of professed believers.

 

[Forever Settled]

You continue to make incorrect allegations that you do not prove to be true. You are the one who may be trying to confuse by your own incorrect allegations. There is nothing to clear up about my Bible-believing, fundamentalist, independent Baptist beliefs.

All readers can look back and see.... you all of a sudden with no previous conversation in this thread.....posted in a tizz about the water salvationists quote.

Why did that set you off like that ? What are we to think ? You appeared to be defending the quote.

Now you fail to clearify Your beliefs . People can look back and see my quote of Wesley struck a nerve with you .water for salvation Hmmm.