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Babies in hell?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Jan 31, 2019.

?

Are people born 'hellbound' due to Adam's transgression?

Poll closed Aug 31, 2019.

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    52.6%

  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    *****AHEM*****

    @kyredneck

    This is the FOURTH time I have ask these...

    Will there literally be babies in the eternal state?
    If yes, who will run the nursery?
    Who will change the diapers?
    Who will feed and burp them?
    How can babies bow their knee and declare Jesus is Lord?


    Will you kindly respond to them?
     
    #121 SovereignGrace, Feb 3, 2019
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It is reasonable to assume that since all things will be made known to us all in Heaven this would also be true for the Baby's. I do not believe they will be helpless nor immature.
    MB
     
    #122 MB, Feb 3, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No I read your post and intended to reply.

    Well, you left out 'the many' (I'll include MY [crude] paraphrase):
    ​
    15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one [the elect] died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto [the elect].
    16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.
    17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.
    18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto [everyone ever born] to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto [everyone ever born] to justification of life. Ro 5

    Paul switches from 'the many' in v 15 to 'all men' in v 18. Why the change?

    The Calvinist narrative reads v 18 this way:

    18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto [everyone ever born] to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto [some] to justification of life. Ro 5​



    ​
     
    #123 kyredneck, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ultimately that's what this discussion is about, the atonement.
     
    #124 kyredneck, Feb 4, 2019
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  5. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the context points to the Messiah. However, I think it also indicates that each of us comes to an age of knowing good from evil. Admittedly, this is a bit of a stretch, and I don't know of any other scriptures that speak of an age of accountability.
     
    #125 Lodic, Feb 4, 2019
  6. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I think that Hades refers to the grave in this instance. Before Christ rose from the dead, I don't believe anyone actually went to Heaven, but to "Abraham's Bosom", sort of a holding place. This is where both David and his infant son were during this time.
     
    #126 Lodic, Feb 4, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Your crude paraphrase destroys the whole meaning of the chapter.

    The WE which is taught begining in Vs 1 ....is the ALL in vs 18 and the Many spoken of in Vs 19.
     
    #127 Forever Settled, Feb 4, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    *****AHEM*****

    @kyredneck

    This is the FIFTH time I have asked these...

    Will there literally be babies in the eternal state?
    If yes, who will run the nursery?
    Who will change the diapers?
    Who will feed and burp them?
    How can babies bow their knee and declare Jesus is Lord?


    Will you kindly respond to them?
     
    #128 SovereignGrace, Feb 4, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #129 37818, Feb 4, 2019
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    So, you believe babies will be babies in the eternal state?
     
    #130 SovereignGrace, Feb 4, 2019
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--

    18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.

    If ‘all men’ in v 12 means ‘all mankind’ so it does in v 18. You can’t cherry pick the text to make it fit in your box Willis.

    If ‘all men’ in v 12 means ‘all mankind’ so it does in v 18.
     
    #131 kyredneck, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Duty calls, I'll be back later. There's more posts I want to respond to. Thanks for all the input.
     
    #132 kyredneck, Feb 4, 2019
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  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Again, that passage is referring to each Adam’s federal headship. Those who Adam represented received his guilt. Those the Christ represnted receive His righteousness.
     
    #133 SovereignGrace, Feb 4, 2019
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I thought only Catholics saw that, as they would all be in Limbo?
     
    #134 Yeshua1, Feb 4, 2019
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The contention here is can God put infants into Christ apart from them having "saving faith"
     
    #135 Yeshua1, Feb 4, 2019
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that is how you interpret Mark 10:15, as babies who cannot make decisions to receive God's grace? So unless we are not able to make such deccisions we will not enter the kingdom of God?
     
    #136 37818, Feb 4, 2019
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Little children believe ppl. They trust ppl. Jesus said those who trust Him, need to trust Him just as kids trust ppl. Not that the eternal state is populated with a bunch of kids playing on a play ground.
     
    #137 SovereignGrace, Feb 4, 2019
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Children of a certain age can trust in Jesus, but babies need God to save them!
     
    #138 Yeshua1, Feb 4, 2019
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I agree. But ppl think there’d going to be kids playing in the eternal state. They think there’s going to be babies there, too. If that’s true, they elderly folk will be there, too.
     
    #139 SovereignGrace, Feb 4, 2019
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Well, the Bible doesn’t explicitly say He does that. There just isn’t enough biblical support one way or the other of their eternal destination.
     
    #140 SovereignGrace, Feb 4, 2019
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