Babies in hell?

[SovereignGrace]

*****AHEM*****

@kyredneck

This is the FOURTH time I have ask these...

Will there literally be babies in the eternal state?
If yes, who will run the nursery?
Who will change the diapers?
Who will feed and burp them?
How can babies bow their knee and declare Jesus is Lord?


Will you kindly respond to them?

 

[MB]

*****AHEM*****

@kyredneck

This is the FOURTH time I have ask these...

Will there literally be babies in the eternal state?
If yes, who will run the nursery?
Who will change the diapers?
Who will feed and burp them?
How can babies bow their knee and declare Jesus is Lord?


Will you kindly respond to them?

It is reasonable to assume that since all things will be made known to us all in Heaven this would also be true for the Baby's. I do not believe they will be helpless nor immature.
MB

 

[kyredneck]

Maybe you missed my post it deals directly with your question :

Babies in hell?

No I read your post and intended to reply.

So what do "we" see here?

"we" - 16 times;

"our" - 4 times;

"us" - 4 times;

There is a specific group Paul is writing about", "we".

Well, you left out 'the many' (I'll include MY [crude] paraphrase):
​

15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one [the elect] died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto [the elect].
16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto [everyone ever born] to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto [everyone ever born] to justification of life. Ro 5

Paul switches from 'the many' in v 15 to 'all men' in v 18. Why the change?

The Calvinist narrative reads v 18 this way:

18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto [everyone ever born] to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto [some] to justification of life. Ro 5​

​

 

[kyredneck]

was there a difference in the spiritual state of the babies pre- and post-Cross?

Did the Atonement apply pre-cross?

It's rare that a question given in answer to a question actually answers the original question.

Ultimately that's what this discussion is about, the atonement.

 

[Lodic]

Lodic, that is a prophecy about the Messiah:

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings." ( Isaiah 7:14-16 ).

I agree that the context points to the Messiah. However, I think it also indicates that each of us comes to an age of knowing good from evil. Admittedly, this is a bit of a stretch, and I don't know of any other scriptures that speak of an age of accountability.

 

[Lodic]

On the day the Holy Spirit was shed forth, Pentecost, 51 days after the resurrection of Christ, Peter said David, on that day, was both dead and buried and also said that when David wrote that his soul would not be left in Hades (Hell KJV) that David wasn't speaking of himself but of Christ of the fruit of his loins, therefore I ask; Just where was David on that day, 51 days after the resurrection to die no more Rom 6:9 and where was his infant son?

I will agree with one thing. David had gone to him.

I think that Hades refers to the grave in this instance. Before Christ rose from the dead, I don't believe anyone actually went to Heaven, but to "Abraham's Bosom", sort of a holding place. This is where both David and his infant son were during this time.

 

[Forever Settled]

Well, you left out 'the many' (I'll include MY [crude] paraphrase):

Your crude paraphrase destroys the whole meaning of the chapter.

The WE which is taught begining in Vs 1 ....is the ALL in vs 18 and the Many spoken of in Vs 19.

 

[SovereignGrace]

*****AHEM*****

@kyredneck

This is the FIFTH time I have asked these...

Will there literally be babies in the eternal state?
If yes, who will run the nursery?
Who will change the diapers?
Who will feed and burp them?
How can babies bow their knee and declare Jesus is Lord?


Will you kindly respond to them?

 

[37818]

Mark 10:15; John 3:4.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Mark 10:15; John 3:4.

So, you believe babies will be babies in the eternal state?

 

[kyredneck]

Romans 5:12ff speaks of all mankind

12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--

18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.

If ‘all men’ in v 12 means ‘all mankind’ so it does in v 18. You can’t cherry pick the text to make it fit in your box Willis.

The WE which is taught begining in Vs 1 ....is the ALL in vs 18 and the Many spoken of in Vs 19.

If ‘all men’ in v 12 means ‘all mankind’ so it does in v 18.

 

[kyredneck]

Duty calls, I'll be back later. There's more posts I want to respond to. Thanks for all the input.

 

[SovereignGrace]

12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--

18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.

If ‘all men’ in v 12 means ‘all mankind’ so it does in v 18. You can’t cherry pick the text to make it fit in your box Willis.



If ‘all men’ in v 12 means ‘all mankind’ so it does in v 18.

Again, that passage is referring to each Adam’s federal headship. Those who Adam represented received his guilt. Those the Christ represnted receive His righteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

So, you believe babies will be babies in the eternal state?

I thought only Catholics saw that, as they would all be in Limbo?

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, that passage is referring to each Adam’s federal headship. Those who Adam represented received his guilt. Those the Christ represnted receive His righteousness.

The contention here is can God put infants into Christ apart from them having "saving faith"

 

[37818]

So, you believe babies will be babies in the eternal state?

Oh, that is how you interpret Mark 10:15, as babies who cannot make decisions to receive God's grace? So unless we are not able to make such deccisions we will not enter the kingdom of God?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Oh, that is how you interpret Mark 10:15, as babies who cannot make decisions to receive God's grace? So unless we are not able to make such deccisions we will not enter the kingdom of God?

Little children believe ppl. They trust ppl. Jesus said those who trust Him, need to trust Him just as kids trust ppl. Not that the eternal state is populated with a bunch of kids playing on a play ground.

 

[Yeshua1]

Little children believe ppl. They trust ppl. Jesus said those who trust Him, need to trust Him just as kids trust ppl. Not that the eternal state is populated with a bunch of kids playing on a play ground.

Children of a certain age can trust in Jesus, but babies need God to save them!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Children of a certain age can trust in Jesus, but babies need God to save them!

I agree. But ppl think there’d going to be kids playing in the eternal state. They think there’s going to be babies there, too. If that’s true, they elderly folk will be there, too.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The contention here is can God put infants into Christ apart from them having "saving faith"

Well, the Bible doesn’t explicitly say He does that. There just isn’t enough biblical support one way or the other of their eternal destination.