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Eschatology Agnostics

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Feb 5, 2019.

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  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    You are referring to a different passage. Definitely not a cross-reference. Here Jesus says those who attain the resurrection will be "equal to the angels" (isangeloi). One does not judge someone on the same level. At any rate judging is not even discussed here, but essence is.
     
    #61 asterisktom, Feb 7, 2019
  2. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't made the case for the Church always seeing Preterist views as heresy. Regardless, the Scriptures leave room for interpretation either way.
     
    #62 Lodic, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God intends the scriptures to be read by every generation until the time of the Second coming, as that event will always be just ready to happen!
     
    #63 Yeshua1, Feb 7, 2019
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    1-3 John were all written after AD 70...
     
    #64 Yeshua1, Feb 7, 2019
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No they don't, as the Second Coming has ALWAYS been seen as being a still future event in the Church of Christ!
     
    #65 Yeshua1, Feb 7, 2019
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We shall be in the same form/body Jesus now is in, that physically risen one!
     
    #66 Yeshua1, Feb 7, 2019
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  7. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    There is strong evidence that the entire NT was finished between 66-68.
     
    #67 Lodic, Feb 7, 2019
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  8. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Another point to notice is that none of the writers refer to the fall of Jerusalem as a past event. Given the immense spiritual importance of the event - the ending of the entire Jewish system of worship - it would be bizarre and unfitting for inspired writers to pass over this in silence.

    But the event was not reported because it had not happened yet.
     
    #68 asterisktom, Feb 7, 2019
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  9. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    As President Trump would say, "that is YUUUGE!" I'm still shaking my head over the "no big deal" comment earlier. So many clues - near time statements, use of "you" and "we", the history of what was happening - it all adds up. Unless you refuse to see it, of course.
     
    #69 Lodic, Feb 7, 2019
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  10. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 shows that his immediate audience expected it in their day. He speaks to them, not about some future generation. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul speaks of the "Man of Lawlessness" as though it is someone they knew. Try to read the Scriptures through the eyes of their original audiences. Drop the views that you think you know. You just might be surprised.
     
    #70 Lodic, Feb 7, 2019
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  11. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    But I always try to remind myself that I was in the same mindset - for almost 3 decades. I wished that someone had told me of these other possible interpretations way back then.
     
    #71 asterisktom, Feb 7, 2019
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  12. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Amen, Brother. It totally blew me away to learn of the Preterist view. The more I studied, the more I realized that I had to forget everything I thought I knew about the "End Times" to learn what Scripture actually teaches us.
     
    #72 Lodic, Feb 7, 2019
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  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    It's a very frustrating trend in the church today. Very little of the bible is preached to avoid arguments and controversy. Genesis 1-11 and the tribulation portions of Revelation are rarely preached in my experience. It's a shame because they're missing a blessing.

    Should Churches Avoid Genesis and Revelation?
     
    #73 Calminian, Feb 7, 2019
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  14. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Not really. Preterists try to make this case, but I've not heard a good argument yet, from historical quotes. Even if they did, the magnitude of the tribulation precludes fulfillment in one tiny location for a brief time. Anyone reading Revelation can see John is describing a worldwide tribulation.
     
    #74 Calminian, Feb 7, 2019
  15. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    See your buddy accuses me of bringing up that verse when you did. You yourself want to have your cake and eat it too. You are trying to say that the verse says that there are no more Jews but that you are a free man but by your own logic if there are no more Jews there are no more men and no more slaves, which is a combination of West Hollywood and Islam.

    Why did Jesus mention Jerusalem? Because it fulfills the prophecy of Moses but it has nothing to do with any of the degenerate two-bit Roman emperors who gave no one the mark of the beast and probably never heard of it. Rome was just another nazi state. You lose.
     
    #75 church mouse guy, Feb 7, 2019
  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    When Christ was born to Mary, who were in Jerusalem, the good figs or the bad, very bad figs and why were they there?

    Where were the, other, figs?
     
    #76 percho, Feb 7, 2019
  17. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll give it a shot. There were both good and bad figs when Christ was born. It had not yet gotten to the point where it did in the 60's.

    Maybe if you clarify I can also answer more clearly.
     
    #77 asterisktom, Feb 7, 2019
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  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Jeremiah 24
     
    #78 percho, Feb 7, 2019
  19. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Whether or not historical sources can be found, my question is why are you wanting to bypass the Bible itself as a witness to this topic? None of those parts of the Bible that you assume were written well after AD70 make any after-the-fact comment about the fall of Jerusalem. Many of them speak of the Temple as still standing and the judgment to happen very soon.

    The assumed magnitude, that is. You are just echoing what you have been trained to see. Just as many of us were. The language of the Greek and the details point rather to (what you call) the "tiny location" of Israel and the "brief time". Actually, some of the details concern the entire Roman Empire, wherever the Diaspora has spread to.
    Countrywide and rippling throughout the entire Diaspora, yes. Not worldwide.
     
    #79 asterisktom, Feb 8, 2019
  20. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Yes, the Jews of the 60's were those bad figs that could no longer be eaten. And, like the Jews of Jeremiah's time, they were doomed to be delivered to the sword and scattered off of the land.

    There is a partial parallel between the first and second judgments of Jerusalem. In the first the ones going off into captivity were the believing, obedient remnant. In the second the ones going off into captivity were going to their doom. The only Christians who escaped were the Christians who had fled to Pella when they had the window of opportunity.

    When they left the basket had only bad - very bad - figs. And they are the figs that "fell like stars from the sky", Rev. 6:13.

    Daniel was foretold of this time:

    "When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." Daniel 12:7
     
    #80 asterisktom, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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