On Baptism...

Indoctrinated !Learn to read, already covered that. Catch up ! You are the perversion! Even pagans are born through amniotic fluid and that is NOT the water birth Christ is speaking of. All humans are born this way. The second birth is what Christ is speaking of and water baptism is part of that, Heretic! That is why John the Baptist baptized and Why Christ says to do so as part of His Commands.

For the sake of argument, let's say water baptism is as you put it a COMMAND, not necessary in salvation. It is clear it is a command even if least, so your point?
If you teach any of His commands as least you will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, so your point?
To break any of His commands is lawlessness, so you preach lawlessness and presume to put yourself above Christ, very evil!

But to your loss, there is no "for sake of argument" Christ said teach all He commands as GREAT. And water baptism is necessary to enter the kingdom of Heaven, PERIOD!

 

He appears to be a Campbellite. IOW...CoC.

 

Please give an exegetical summary to support your claims. I study theology and the original languages and there is no way your interpretation is correct. It doesn't even make sense. Verse 4 in that passage shows that water birth is physical birth, not baptism.

No, baptism is not part of that. You need to look at context.

 

ALL HIS COMMANDS ARE GREAT! You can not pick and choose of His teachings what you want to apply. His Word is not a buffet in which you eat only what you want. NO! His feast is a banquet in which you eat ALL that which the HOST puts on your plate. If not ,you insult the Host. You people have answered NO questions. And have shown no proof with scripture support of your argument PERIOD! I have PERIOD! You are all blind guides of blind men. So, what is water baptism For? It is just a bath?

That is what you call the Command of Christ, just a bath ?

The Fulfillment of the Law Matthew 5:18-20
…18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the (least )of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.…

Well you keep teaching His command as least, and for sure you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Either way you loose! For sake of argument-YOU LOOSE, for what you consider to be the least of His commands, is actually great!

Not for sake of argument- YOU LOOSE! His least,STILL GREAT! and necessary! You will not enter heaven if you do not teach all He says as GREAT. It is a win, win for me and a loose , loose for you! I follow ALL THE WORD not part and teach ALL as great as HE SAYS TO!

 

That certainly explains the "legalistic" stance he is taking.

 

Actually he’s RCC or seems to be.

 

I have never said any of the commands were not great, though some are higher than others. I am also not picking certain teachings to apply. I am looking at the teachings in the proper context.

Actually I have shown proof for my argument in the John 3 passage. Verse 4 provides the context that shows your interpretation to be invalid.

I have never said that. I have never said there is no purpose for baptism, there is. But what do you think that purpose is? It is not salvation. Otherwise, we have a works based salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 dispels that notion. That being said, baptism is a sign that we have believed and have entered into the covenant with Christ.

 

Already did , your turn.
Exegesis is a critical explanation or interpretation of a text, particularly a religious text. Traditionally the term was used primarily for work with the Bible; however, in modern usage "biblical exegesis" is used for greater specificity to distinguish it from any other broader critical text explanation

Show me that it is amniotic fluid water Christ is speaking about when it is clear He is speaking of a different water . For it is clear Nicodemus like you did not understand BORN AGAIN,hence is why Nicodemus asked how can a man reenter the womb. Christ is not speaking of that water, which pagans are born through too. It is not the water therefore, of baptism, PERIOD! So let's hear some more stupidity, that you would call EXEGESIS.
Jesus and Nicodemus John:

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”

3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”a

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”

5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.

12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.b 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

For God So Loved

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”c

John's Testimony about Jesus

22After this, Jesus and His disciples went into the Judean countryside, (where He spent some time with them and baptized.)

23Now John was (also baptizing at Aenon near Salim), because the water was plentiful there, and people kept coming to be baptized. 24(For John had not yet been thrown into prison.)

25A dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the issue of ceremonial washing. 26So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

27John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must increase; I must decrease.

31The One who comes from above is above all. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth and speaks as one from the earth. The One who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what He has seen and heard, yet no one accepts His testimony. 33Whoever accepts His testimony has certified that God is truthful. 34For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in His hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”d

 

YOU ARE NOT LOOKING AT ANYTHING IN THE PROPER CONTEXT OR YOU WOULD NOT TEACH ANYTHING AS HIGHER OR LOWER AS HE SAID! You provide no proof for your idiotic doctrine . It is idiotic because the father of lies is!

 

Author, Teacher, Husband? You should retire from teacher for it is clear you are a false teacher and upon you will be a greater judgement!

 

Prove me invalid , simply saying that proves NOTHING, it only proves you cannot read and comprehend.

 

It is just this simple now, since I got all the BUNK out of the way....IS WATER BAPTISM NECESSARY yes or no? Is all He COMMANDS NECESSARY, yes or no? If you break even the least of His commands will you go to heaven YES OR NO? If you teach what HE CONSIDERS TO BE LEAST AS LEAST- CAN YOU GO TO HEAVEN IF HE SAYS TEACH ALL AS GREAT? It is clear He will judge what is least or great then, NO? I will follow the GREAT ONE for I , who am human -am in no position to teach anything He says as least because He is God and is GREAT! He spoke all into being. The Word of the Lord!

 

Both CoC and RCC are strong possibilities. Maybe even UPC. I am guessing he won't be telling us, though. In any case, @davidtaylorjr is presenting a very strong case against his view. I got tired of F&W's condescending attitude. I meet with some RCC friends over coffee sometimes for religious discussions. Our visits are always cordial, but I digress.

 

Really? And what case is that, denial of Christ's words?

 

David is presenting the true meaning of Christ's words. A few of us are curious about you. If you don't mind my asking, are you Catholic, Church of Christ, or what? Obviously it's your business, but your legalistic view points toward those. Mostly, I personally don't like your condescending attitude. The idea behind this kind of forum is to discuss our views, not to beat your views into everyone else. Your attitude is hardly "Christ-like". As far as I can tell, nobody has insulted you. Why do you feel the need to be so rude?

 

I do not have to worry about what you do and do not like, you do. He is presenting no true meaning.

1Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

It is just this simple now, since I got all the BUNK out of the way....IS WATER BAPTISM NECESSARY yes or no? Is all He COMMANDS NECESSARY, yes or no? If you break even the least of His commands will you go to heaven YES OR NO? If you teach what HE CONSIDERS TO BE LEAST AS LEAST- CAN YOU GO TO HEAVEN IF HE SAYS TEACH ALL AS GREAT? It is clear He will judge what is least or great then, NO? I will follow the GREAT ONE for I , who am human -am in no position to teach anything He says as least because He is God and is GREAT! He spoke all into being. The Word of the Lord!

 

No difference to the truth which you all clearly deny being Baptist.

 

It's really unfortunate how one can take different passages out of context and make it fit whatever doctrine you wish. Your "screen name" of FaithAndWorks clearly shows your bias against what the Bible truly teaches - we are saved by Faith Alone.

John 3:16 - note that it's "whoever believes" should not perish, not "whoever believes and is baptized".
Romans 3:28-30 clearly states that we are "justified by faith apart from works of the Law". Yes, in context, Paul was speaking of the Jewish Law. However, the same principle applies. Sola Fide. This theme is repeated in Romans 5:1.
Romans 11:6 - We are not saved on the basis of (any) works (such as baptism) - otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Those are just a few of the passages. This doesn't seem to be your first rodeo as far as this discussion goes, so I'm sure you have a rebuttal for each of them. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

IRONIC BAPTIST! Now that is an oxymoron, considering your stance. No confusion there! GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION! Satan is though.
1Corthinans 14:33
for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Acts 13:10
King James Version
And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?