Preterists Cannot Prove Their Assertions !

All Scripture must be interpreted according to its "literal" sense, whether it's historical narrative, didactic, poetic, or prophetic symbolism. To re-state the obvious, we will never agree. It's the "futurist" view that is made up by man; preterism is the orthodox view.

 

If you really could "prove" your point regarding the "futurist" view of the Beast, etc., I'd switch back to that view. As it is, I see more proof to support the preterist view.

The true context of Scripture shows there was / will be no literal mark. I used to believe the mark of the beast would be a microchip, but I have dismissed that as science-fiction. Good point regarding the mark of Cain, but I'm not about the nature of his mark. Maybe a topic for discussion sometime.

Gary DeMar is a brilliant theologian, as are Ken Gentry and the late R.C. Sproul. I am quite sure the Scriptures are your ultimate source, and I assure you they are mine. We just disagree on what they say.

 

Oops. I accidentally put all my responses in the text of your original message. You will need to expand the thread above to see them.

Looking forward to the "Nero" thread. FYI - I'm only on the Baptist Board during the week, so I may not reply right away after it's posted.

 

Well you would say that, wouldn't you? But in fact. one does not have to be either a Preterist or a Futurist.

 

Hi, Rev. I've been trying to get your meaning about what my "defense of scripture" is. All I can come up with is what all Christians should use as their defense of scripture - prayer for clear revelation of God's Word as we study. I'm sure that is what you do, and I assure you that is what I do. Having said that, how do you see my comment as arrogant?

 

Are you referring to those who view all prophecies as symbolic or allegorical?

 

If you quote from the NIV perversion, we can't take you seriously. We don't anyway. You follow the false Jesuit futurist fable, and you can't proved it happened because it hasn't so it all speculation.

 

As I said that is nonesense. Sun moon and stars in scripture prophecy always refer to people.

 

We have shown from Scripture the truth of the "partial Preterist" understanding of Scripture.

I hope watchers have been edified & encouraged.

 

Futurists Cannot Prove Their Assertions.

 

We are not yet into the Promised Messianic Age foretold by the OT prophets and John though!

 

True, but we cannot spiritualize all of the OT prophecies of the Second Coming in order to have AD 70 be its realization!

 

Not when the Sun and Moon refer to the Sun and Moon,
Matthew 24:29; Revelation 6:12.

 

Either Matthew 24:29-31 is yet future or literally a failed prophecy.

 

Neither should we ignore the symbolism to make it literal to fit the futurist interpretation.

 

There is a 3rd possibility. This prophecy has been fulfilled, but you don't recognize it's fulfillment because you are looking for something else. As an old saying goes, "to a hammer, everything looks like a nail". To a "futurist", everything has to be literal, even when the original authors intended a symbolic meaning, and the original audiences understood the meanings to be symbolic. The 1st Century Christians were very familiar with Jewish symbolism of the OT.

 

1 Thess. 4:17 is commonly used to prove the rapture. In context, vs. 13-18 are about those who died in Christ, and the resurrection body. In vs. 16, we see that the Lord will descend from Heaven. "Descend" was used to describe the priest's descent from the Temple to announce that atonement had been completed. The idea of being "caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (vs. 17) is a picture of God's elect being brought into God's presence in the Holy of Holies. This describes the raising of those who are in Christ, not "the rapture". "The air" in this verse refers to the spiritual realm (compare Eph. 2:2).

The passage from Matt. 24:29-31 is symbolic language pointing to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 66-70. Heavenly bodies often symbolize earthly rulers and governments.

Jew / Gentile distinction - Paul often used the phrase "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek". In the history of redemption, salvation was brought to Israel first, as you well know. However, the Jews rejected Christ when they cried out "crucify Him". The Gentiles were grafted in. Thus, Galatians 6:16 actually goes to prove my point. In vs. 15, we read that whether one is circumcised or not makes no difference. The only thing that counts is to be a new creation. Thus, all who are new creations in Christ have become the true Israel of God. There is only one "people of God". Have you ever considered that, by definition, there were no Jews before Jacob was changed to Israel? Yet, even the Jews look back to Father Abraham, who was actually a Gentile. What is special about Abraham? He is known for his faith. We can see that we are one people through our faith.

That brings us to Rev. 21:9-14. Again, this passage goes more to prove my point. The gates of the Heavenly Jerusalem are the 12 tribes of Israel, and the foundation stones are the 12 apostles. The "true Israel" are those in Christ. The parable of the Landowner (Matt. 33-46) illustrates that the Kingdom of God was taken away from the nation of Israel and given to spiritual Israel.

 

If it hadn't happened, I would agree with you.