While I want to agree with you, the prevalence of flat earth believers prevents me.
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The Cure for Calvinism
- Thread starter Ran the Man
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It is a strong doctrinal theory, but not a proven fact.
I agree he is responding. The problem is that his arguments are heavy on quoted scripture, not scripture engaged. That is what is missing here.
I was a Calvinist for years. Most are well versed in their theology and most are not as antagonistic as seen with icon. What he should have done was concentrate on doctrine and ignore the rest. Good debates focus on doctrine. I think that he has adopted more than he is able to defend (he looks for an echo chamber).
"Is this a dagger which I see before me, The handle toward my hand?"
Or is it weird to think of Icon as Lady Macbeth?
Yes. Although I still like the MiraLax solution, I think that most would hold that the Bible is the cure.
There used to be a huge echo chamber on here. Post one negative thing about Calvinism and get piled on by the whole clan of Cals and the lone "particular baptist."
The point is that Calvinism does not need to be "cured". People understand the gospel and scripture in different ways. None of these theologies are prescribed by Scripture although we all believe ours is correct (which is why we hold them).
Systematic theology incorporates Scripture, observation, and human reasoning. Only the first is perfect. These threads should be places where Christians can discuss their differences, learn of the other's views, and reexamine their own view. It is not a place to try to indoctrinate others to one's own way of thinking.
I would rather a person be a Calvinist, an Arminianian, a Pentecostal, a Methodist, a Presbyterian, or a Democrat (
) and be a Christian than abandon any of those only to find themselves in a crisis of faith in Christ.
Human understanding will always be flawed. The Gospel is never flawed. Our faith has to be in Christ, not in our understanding.
Systematic theology incorporates Scripture, observation, and human reasoning. Only the first is perfect. These threads should be places where Christians can discuss their differences, learn of the other's views, and reexamine their own view. It is not a place to try to indoctrinate others to one's own way of thinking.
I would rather a person be a Calvinist, an Arminianian, a Pentecostal, a Methodist, a Presbyterian, or a Democrat (
) and be a Christian than abandon any of those only to find themselves in a crisis of faith in Christ. Human understanding will always be flawed. The Gospel is never flawed. Our faith has to be in Christ, not in our understanding.
Matthew 5:11-12. You have no idea what MacArthur does with his salary and how much he gives. Nor, before you ask, do I.
I think it reasonable to believe that MacArthur is worth several million (a few past 990's are out there for GTY). But think about it. He is a well selling author (his Bible is one of the best selling Bibles). He is a senior president. He is the president of Master's University. If I recall, he has a radio program as well.
I like it that he provides his sermons and resources free of charge on the grace to you website. John Piper often does this as well (many of his books are there for purchase or download).
No one seeks a cure for Calvinism. No not one.
Calvinism is the cure against bad theology of the Cross!
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
What makes you think it isn't proven? It says it right in Scripture. That is proof enough for me.
??
No cure needed for biblical truth.
I disagree. I think Scripture demands that we study to rightly divide the Word of Truth.
Just compare the volumes written by Calvinists over church history concerning theology with the meager offerings from those who are against us and attack us!
Look hard enough, and you can find someone willing to argue that 2+2 doesn't equal 4.
I agree. But then Calvinism would never have existed.
The issue is Calvinism is a product of systematic theology. Systematic theology bases itself on Scripture but uses other things (like nature, cultural influences, and human reasoning). These theologies seek to answer what is not actually provided in the text of Scripture (it seeks to know what it comes to see as implied).
We understand Scripture via a human mind. As Spurgeon noted, that is at once a flaw in our theology and a tool as we deal with opposing views.
Scripture can mean that Christ died to save only the elect (which I believe). But the text itself can also mean the elect corporately (which I believe implies individual election as well, but that is not actually in Scripture). And Scripture can also be used to apply the term "elect" post-salvation (the word "elect" is never used of a person who is not already saved).
So which is true? It does not depend on Scripture but on interpretation and reasoning.
Take it a bit further - if the Calvinist is wrong about the mode of divine justice (the type or category of justice that God uses), or if wrong about the extent to which redemption is based on divine justice, then everything that follows falls apart. Guess what Scripture does not tell us in the text. That is where reasoning comes in (and why I left Calvinism).
Our understandings are vital because it is how Scripture translates to us. BUT our understanding is human. We are guided by the Spirit, but come to different places because we reason out and interpret things differently.
It does not have to equal 4. Suppose we are talking about two 3's. Then the sum is 6.
Edit: or 12....
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Paul was a Calvinist.
Not true. You can get it without systematics as well and use only Biblical Theology.
Are you one of these people that says we can never know 100% what Scripture means? Because that is what it sounds like.
Or maybe more in the line that there cannot be a really 100% theology from the scriptures able to be proven?
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