The Cure for Calvinism

[Ran the Man]

Dude, I just quoted a link about his salary. As for his being a Jerkasaurus, there are plenty of posts on other forums.

 

[Reynolds]

What do you mean? What about John MacArthur's sins? Ace is just a musician. He's not even half as rich as MacArthur. His net worth is somewhere around 1 million.

What does bet worth have to do with anything?

 

[Ran the Man]

What does bet worth have to do with anything?

He used the gospel to get rich and live in luxury while most of the world lives without.

 

[JonC]

@Iconoclast

I am ignoring your temper tantrum and false accusations because it is not relevant to the post except to say that you resort to insult and slander speaks to your character rather than the topic at hand. I suppose you do so because you have no legitimate answer (your claims fail).

I will, however, note that this is one thing we have seen among some Calvinists. When cornered they act as rabid dogs - barking and biting rather than addressing the question.

You could have simply said that you believe @Ran the Man has not expressed knowledge of or a lack of understanding in Calvinism. He simple attacked the theology without addressing its doctrine. I suppose you are intelligent enough, however, to see the hypocrisy in that as you did the same (falsely accusing me based on a fictious post that mysteriously disappeared).

The point is you do not know if @Ran the Man understands Calvinism because he has not engaged its actual doctrines. You assume anyone who disagrees does so from a lack of understanding. That is a foolish assumption.

You need to move from assuming things about people to dealing with what is actually posted. You should have challenged @Ran the Man on what he posted instead of attacking his character (which you don't know). That is the difference between dialogue and foolishness.

 

[Reformed1689]

Dude, I just quoted a link about his salary. As for his being a Jerkasaurus, there are plenty of posts on other forums.

First, you used an uncited link that already reported a salary MUCH less than what you said he makes. Also, do you know where he lives? Los Angeles, CA. Do you know what the cost of living is in Los Angeles?

He used the gospel to get rich and live in luxury while most of the world lives without.

MacArthur gets paid proportionately to his work. He made money off of hard work. Over 150 books edited or authored, some of which sold over 1,000,000 copies.

That being said, let's talk about his salary and give you some perspective. He makes, according to your website, 160,000/yr. That is less than 1% of Grace to You's annual contributions alone. That doesn't include book revenue and church revenue plus the Master's Seminary revenue.

So this idea that he gets paid a ridiculous amount of money holds no water and you need to bark up a different tree and know what you are talking about.

 

[Reformed1689]

You need to move from assuming things about people to dealing with what is actually posted. You should have challenged @Ran the Man on what he posted instead of attacking his character (which you don't know). That is the difference between dialogue and foolishness.

One correction, I would say how he is posting does show something of his character.

 

[Rob_BW]

First, you used an uncited link that already reported a salary MUCH less than what you said he makes. Also, do you know where he lives? Los Angeles, CA. Do you know what the cost of living is in Los Angeles?



MacArthur gets paid proportionately to his work. He made money off of hard work. Over 150 books edited or authored, some of which sold over 1,000,000 copies.

That being said, let's talk about his salary and give you some perspective. He makes, according to your website, 160,000/yr. That is less than 1% of Grace to You's annual contributions alone. That doesn't include book revenue and church revenue plus the Master's Seminary revenue.

So this idea that he gets paid a ridiculous amount of money holds no water and you need to bark up a different tree and know what you are talking about.

For a look at university president salaries:
Redirect Notice

 

[Reformed1689]

For a look at university president salaries:
Redirect Notice

That's assuming he is actually interested in reason.

 

[JonC]

One correction, I would say how he is posting does show something of his character.

I agree (for both @Ran the Man and @Iconoclast ).

These discussions should be restricted to the doctrines (not what some Calvinists or non-Calvinists may have done or may have taught).

Within Calvinism there is an interesting discussion about the extent of the atonement and what exactly was accomplished (in terms of an universal provision and a definite atonement). Between views there are interesting discussions about depravity, the extent of human will, the atonement, theories of atonement, how God works to bring men to faith, etc.

It is a shame the dialogue does not focus on these things.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 12:55 PM Pacific.

 

[Reynolds]

He used the gospel to get rich and live in luxury while most of the world lives without.

Oh, so you must love socialism.

 

[Reynolds]

I agree (for both @Ran the Man and @Iconoclast ).

These discussions should be restricted to the doctrines (not what some Calvinists or non-Calvinists may have done or may have taught).

Within Calvinism there is an interesting discussion about the extent of the atonement and what exactly was accomplished (in terms of an universal provision and a definite atonement). Between views there are interesting discussions about depravity, the extent of human will, the atonement, theories of atonement, how God works to bring men to faith, etc.

It is a shame the dialogue does not focus on these things.

In defense of The Calvinists, the non-Cals are the ones who bring emotion and outside "evidence" into the discussion.

 

[JonC]

In defense of The Calvinists, the non-Cals ate the ones who bring emotion and outside "evidence" into the discussion.

I disagree. I think that both have here. @Ran the Man is arguing from what he believes Calvinist may have done, what they may think, what racial group they represent, etc. But @Iconoclast has also made false and misleading accusations. Neither are engaging Calvinistic doctrine.

 

[Reynolds]

I disagree. I think that both have here. @Ran the Man is arguing from what he believes Calvinist may have done, what they may think, what racial group they represent, etc. But @Iconoclast has also made false and misleading accusations. Neither are engaging Calvinistic doctrine.

I see Iconoclast as responding to the nonsense, not initiating it. Historically, his arguments are heavy on scripture and light on emotion.

 

[Yeshua1]

Here it is:

Travel.

Once you travel, you will see the world thru different eyes, The lock box of Calvinism will fall before your feet. You will see christian shrines like those of the Crypto Christians in Japan who had to survive by disguising Mary as feminine Buddha. You will see Christianity in it's oldest forms in Ethiopia, and walk with them on their Ark Pilgrimages. You will see how the Chinese bury their dead and remember them, and how Chinese New Year reflects the Passover. You will see that while all are far from God, He is not far from any of us.
Calvinism cannot survive under the weight of world experience.
I invite you to leave the bubble of Calvinism and see the world without its distorted lenses.

The problem with that is that the scriptures support it, especially in the doctrines of Christ and of Paul!

 

[Yeshua1]

I disagree. I think that both have here. @Ran the Man is arguing from what he believes Calvinist may have done, what they may think, what racial group they represent, etc. But @Iconoclast has also made false and misleading accusations. Neither are engaging Calvinistic doctrine.

The truth of Calvinism is from what the scriptures teach regarding salvation, and not based upon how some in history have misapplied it!

 

[Reynolds]

Dude, I just quoted a link about his salary. As for his being a Jerkasaurus, there are plenty of posts on other forums.

How is he a jerk? He is just no nonsense. He is business. He has very little tolerance for foolishness. He won't play word games with people. If you try to get into word games with him, he will shut you down. How is that being a jerk?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are lying plain and simple we both know what you posted....I will look up the date to refresh your memory.
You whined that you were not going to let Biblicist, and Martin kick you around anymore, then you hid for a day or two...I will get the date for you. No need to lie. Just own your statements.

Calvinism has no need to be on the defensive, as it should be non Calvinist salvation theology that needs to be examined more in the light of the scriptures!

 

[Reynolds]

The truth of Calvinism is from what the scriptures teach regarding salvation, and not based upon how some in history have misapplied it!

Calvinism is a sound doctrinal theory. It can be supported by Scripture, but it can't be proven by scripture. If it were a proven fact, there would be no debate.

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinism is a sound doctrinal theory. It can be supported by Scripture, but it can't be proven by scripture. If it were a proven fact, there would be no debate.

It fits better the scriptural model of the fall and its effects...