Featured The plausibility of John 3:18

That’s not what I said and not even remotely close.

Take Shaun in a remote area who never heard of the Christ. He is condemned already, condemned in Adam. He did nothing to earn this condemnation. If he dies before he hears the gospel, he dies lost. Why? He was a sinner who died in his sins, never knowing the way to the Father.

 

The idea that verse is not true but might be discussed as plausible is laughable

If there is question, the error is our understanding of a verse or others.

 

Exactly. Unbelief is a manifestation of condemnation. Not vice versa. @JonC seems to think unbelief brings condemnation. It’s cart before horse thinking.

 

They know the Godhead, but they don’t know the Son came as a man and died and rose again. This only comes from the Bible.

 

More than that, rejecting God is a SYMPTOM or superficial cause for condemnation but it is neither the underlying cause which is found in the condition of the fallen nature from birth or the original cause for condemnation, but the original cause for condemnation which is the root of the heart condition and unbelief is - for the judgment was by one to condemnation,.....Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

Jesus is dealing with the consequential cause of condemnation, rather than its underlying cause (Jn. 3:19-20) and root cause (Rom. 5). The new birth is the solution for all three as the new birth changes the nature introduced by the fall due to one man's sin which brought upon all men condemnation (not unbelief) which in turn is manifested as belief which is the manifest cause for justification (but which is not the underlying or root cause for justification).

 

You are right, it says we are condemned and we continue in condemnation because of unbelief

 

He was condemned before He Got here.
Creation is to redeem humans

 

You are the one who needs to read Romans. Chapter 1 speaks to fallen man’s ruin state outside the Christ. They take what they know of God and attribute it to some sort of idol.

 

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1]

Here Paul is speaking about those who have never read the word of God, never had someone tell them about the Christ, they take the knowledge they have of God, and attribute it to some sort of idol.

 

You are right that knowledge of the gospel is not necessary to be condemned and under the wrath of God.

They are "without excuse" because they 'hold down" or repress the truth revealed in nature and in conscience. God and his Godhead is revealed "to" them in nature and "in" them by conscience. I would argue that repressing what is "in" them preceds repressing what is revealed in nature as natural revelation requires additional ability to reason than does violation of conscience. I would argue that repressing conscience is violation of moral law or violating what their conscience reveals to be right and thus doing what their conscience deems to be wrong. The wrath of God is against them due to their willful rejection of the light revealed to them in nature and in conscience. With Jews that condemnation is increased as in addition to nature and conscience they have written revelation which they reject.

However, again all these are consequential to the root cause of condemnation which is -
for the judgment was by one to condemnation, Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

 

Your saying they were condemned because they sinned with Adam. Do you believe they were also condemned because of there own sins? You see I cannot grasp the idea of Adam falling from anywhere. The reason is Adam most certainly believed in God. Adam talked with God since Adam was a believer I find it hard to believe he was condemned. Believers just are not condemned because they are believers. Sure we all sin. I just don't see how you can believe that a believer is ever condemned.
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MB

 

I fullly agree, but would add all of the above is symptomatic of the true source of condemnation -
And not as it was by one that sinned, therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

 

See that goes back to being judged and condemned as a man
We were condemned before we were physical .
We are condemned spiritual beings . BEING human is necessary by the death of one man( God )many can be saved

 

They know there is God, but they know Him as Creator and not Saviour. YUGE difference. They don’t know the gospel of the Christ via natural revelation. Psalms 19 and Romans 1 speak about NR, not a gospel proclamation.

 

Mar 7:9