Featured Is it possible to be Southern Baptist and...

To clarify - did you attend a SBC Seminary (that is governed by the SBC) or did you attend a seminary that is independent of the SBC but affirms the SBC faith and message (e.g., Liberty University, Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, etc). In other words, out of the six SBC Seminaries, which one did you attend?

The reason I ask is your post seems to indicate that you attended a SBC seminary and worked with the staff at this SBC seminary (SBC staff). I am curious as to which one taught "easy believeism". This is foreign to my experience but I did not attend a SBC seminary (I attended Liberty). But there are all kinds of seminaries that are SBC in that they agree with and support the SBC mission.

Another reason I ask is I know a professor at the Dallas seminary who teaches missions. He certainly does not believe in "easy believeism".

 

Here is the problem with this comment and this type of comment:

The member who made this comment has no way of knowing if nothing substantial is taught in the Sunday Services of churches who are a part of the SBC denomination. Yet the comment broadly classifies my church as teaching nothing substantial in Sunday Services (which I can provide is false as the pastor taught of the Resurrection...which is VERY substantial). It broadly condemns Paul Washer’s church, Jonathan Falwell’s church, David Platt’s church as teaching nothing substantial in Sunday Service. It calls out members like @Revmitchell and the late @TCassidy for not teaching anything substantial in Sunday Services. (Sorry, Rev., you and TC were the first SBC pastors that came to mind).

My experience is that in every SBC church service, every IFB service, and every "non-denominational" service I've attended something substantial was taught because all have gathered around Scripture. That is not to say that something substantial was received because one must have ears to hear. But I can grant that in the experience of some nothing substantial was taught.

We have to stop categorizing denominations and people-groups according to our experiences. It is wrong. It is dishonest. And it is un-Christlike.

I am not responding to start a debate or argument - there is no argument to be had as there is no room for this kind of prejudice on a Christian forum. I am responding to encourage members (myself included) to PRAYERFULLY THINK about what you are going to post before you post it. Ask yourself if it is true of the whole or is it merely your experience.

 

Thank you for your clarification. I suspected it was not a SBC seminary but an independent seminary that associated itself with the Convention in some form from previous conversations.

I am not sure what you believe to be “extreme accusations” (or “accusations” at all). You said that the “SBC has been so obsessed with easy believism evangelism that nothing substantial is taught in the Sunday Services”. I offered no accusation, just the observation that the comment as stated is an error (and a fallacy). You have no way of knowing what is taught in the Sunday Services of SBC churches as a whole or in general.

I am pleased you have come off that sweeping generalization but am not sure why you find it difficult to own the comment. It was in post#82

And then you continued by explaining how this seminary you attended (this “SBC seminary”) required you to force unbelievers to make a decision and kept a total number of results. BUT this was an INDEPENDENT seminary that supported the SBC – NOT a SBC seminary.


Do you understand why your experiences there do not apply to actual SBC seminaries (the six that are governed by and accountable to the SBC and the SBC churches)?


Are you able to see why it is objectionable to say, even generally, that the SBC does not teach anything substantial in the Sunday Services?

I am not accusing you of anything. I am asking you to evaluate your own comments. If you do not think that they were in error, then that is perfectly fine with me. I am not the one who generally condemned 47,544 churches that worship Jesus Christ. That, friend, is between you and God.

My comment is that we need to be careful when we start generalizing the whole based on our experiences. My experience with Landmark Baptist churches is that most I’ve met are not well educated and have “paper-mill” diplomas. But I cannot apply that to the whole. My experience with Pentecostals is that they yield reason to emotion. But I cannot apply that to the whole (Gordon Fee is a good example of how I would be wrong).

Christians need to stop generalizing and attacking other Christian groups.

 

Iconoclast,

You are almost right. If @The Biblicist attended 23,778 SBC churches at some length then at least he would be able to give an honest opinion about what most SBC churches teach on Sunday Morning. But the problem is that he should never have tried to condemn or critique the whole based on his experiences.

We are not talking about people expressing what they have seen and read, or their views on it. We are talking about prejudices and generalizations made about other Christians, churches, or Christian groups.

Let me give you a personal example – I have been here since 2001. My experience with Reformed Baptists is that most are arrogant, indoctrinated but uneducated, hateful people. I have met exceptions (and I’ve met exceptions here on the BB). But even here on the BB I do not know that I’ve met “most” Reformed Baptists. It would be wrong of me to generalize the whole based on my personal experience. All I can say is that I’ve met some Reformed Baptists who are hateful (which really is not saying anything). Prejudiced generalizations are wrong because they are not honest statements (they rely on limited experience and unfounded ideas).

As Christians we are called to support one another. We are to be careful how we walk, not as unwise men but as wise men. We are to make the most of our time, because the days are evil. We do not need to be foolish, but to understand what the will of the Lord is.

We cannot do this if we are occupying ourselves in generalizations about other Christians based on our very limited experience.

If the problem is “easy believeism” then that problem should be addressed – not ascribed to over 47,500 churches in ignorance of whether or not they adhere to an “easy believeism”.

As Christians we need to be honest in our discourse – to go the extra mile to make sure what we say and post is not false. We have to stop making generalizations about other Christians as this is not only a slander of those faithful believers but it is slandering Christ.

 

Not at all - that was not my response to you (it was actually what I said in post # 85 about the types of posts that categorize denominations and people-groups according to their experiences).

AND I still maintain that characterizing Christians based on our limited experience is wrong, dishonest, and un-Christlike. It makes us the judge of other Christians without even knowing what they believe or teach. This is wrong. We cannot justify this type of prejudice.

(Reference: Exodus 23:1; Leviticus 19:16; Ephesians 4:29; Romans 14; Ephesians 5, 2 Timothy 2; Philippians 2).

 

@Iconoclast ,

I did not give you an opinion about the SBC F&M. That is what the SBC explains on the link provided. I provided what the SBC says anout the F&M. It cannot be a "watered down" document by definition. It can only be too narrow or too broad, depending on opinion. That is why I asked if you had read the document (your opinion betrayed an ignorance about its nature).

There is a difference between an opinion and a logical fallacy (one of generalization).

An opinion would be that you belueve all the SBC churches you have visited have taught insufficient doctrine. This not only would be a legitimate opinion based on your experience but it would have to be accepted as true.

A logical fallacy would be concluding all SBC churches teach insufficient doctrine based on your limited experience and the opinions you have read.

The statement is false because it relies on falacy. It generalizes a small segment and applies it to the whole. Also - If SBC teaching is wrong then it is illogical to rely on a SBC preacher's opinion (Paul Washer) as evidence.

That is the diffrrence between an opinion and an unsubstantiated assertion. You are entitled to the first - not the latter.

Predjudice is NEVER an acceptable mode of argument.

For example. Because of this board my wife and I made the decision not to consider Reformed Baptist churches. This was based on my opinion of the people from my limited experience on an online forum. But I cannot condemn all Reformed Baptist churches based on my experience.

Opinions are important to our decision making process. But they do not justify prejudice. They do not justify generalization and false statements.

Christians are called to "walk in the light". We do not always do this. We cannot allow our opinions and limited experience to be the cause of slandering other Christians or other churches. There may be reasons people do this, but there are no excuses fot the behavior.

 

That's never stopped any one from chiming in.

 

To simplify:

Suppose you were robbed by a purple man, and you see reports about purple man robberies. You form an opinion anout why these robberies occur.

If you generalize the entire race based on this opinion then you hold a prejudice (or a prejudiced opinion) about the race.

If you act on this prejudice, you speak out against the entire race, then you are a racist.

The first sentence is a legitimate opinion. The second a prejudiced opinion. The third a sin.

Christians need to stop sinning against other Christians. There us no excuse for this - period. This is a Christian forum.

When Christians find this type of attitude in their hearts they need to prayerfully turn to God rather than act on it. This applies to SBC, IFB, Reformed, Free-Will, ect. There is NEVER an excuse to act on predjudiced opinions against other Christians.