A Different Salvation?

We know His name, The Messiah has been fulfilled, The OT people did not know His name then, but do know.

I will look for your quotes I was referring to on the legalism. You might not have intended to mean as I received it

 

Thank you for your false accusation and ridicule, because of the truth.
MB

 

99.9% of my post was cold hard grammatical facts and that is why you can't respond with any kind of substance.

No ridicule, no false accusations! You can't respond except precisely how I said you respond - nothing of any substance.

 

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Note the subject identified in verse 38 ("Jesus") and then follow the pronouns ("him...he...him...him...he....he...he...to him......HIS NAME"). Peter does not believe your position as he claims they all knew his name and believed in it while you deny what Peter says. Peter says they knew his name because he is Jehovah our Savior ("Jesus") in the OT gospel.

 

Understand, what I say. you will not find His name in the OT referring to The Messiah.
Not the NT, We know His name and the references from the OT for Jesus. They did not know the Messiah's name

 

It is you that does not understand. Words have meaning. Matthew makes it crystal clear that it was God that chose the name "Jesus" BECAUSE OF WHAT IT MEANS and it means "Yahweh is salvation" or "Yahweh our Savior."

Look at yourself!!! You are calling Peter a liar! When an uninspired man (you) calls an inspired man a liar (Peter) then who do you really think is not telling the truth. Look at his language in Acts 10:38-43. He explicitly says he is speaking about "Jesus" which is the grammatical antecedents for all the pronouns "him...he....him...he....." he uses with verses 38-43, just replace the pronouns with "Jesus" because that is what he is saying and his grammar proves. Here is how it would read:

How God anointed JESUS of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: JESUS went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with JESUS.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which JESUS did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 JESUS God raised up the third day, and shewed JESUS openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with JESUS after he rose from the dead.
42 And JESUS commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is JESUS which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To JESUS give all the prophets witness, that through JESUS name whosoever believeth in JESUS shall receive remission of sins. - Acts 10:38-43


And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. - Mt. 1;21-23

This passage provides the divine meaning of "Jesus". The last part is defined in verse 21 "shall save" while the first part is defined in verse 23 "God" with us.

Matthew says that "HIS PEOPLE" (v. 21) "shall call his name Emmanuel"! His people call him that when they call him "Jesus" because thatis what the meaning of Jesus is - YAHWEH - GOD our SAVIOR.

 

In regards to the second part,

In your thread of
Divine Law that justifies condemning just for unjust

You try to show the sacrifices for the Law kept penalty of sin from being enforced,
Under Levitical Sacrificial law the death on the altar represented the sentence of death prescribed by divine law against sin. This is simple to prove. In Leviticus and elsewhere when Israel sinned against God, God would punish their sin by death, by going among Israel and killing them and it is only when censors with coals taken from the altar came among them did God stop killing them, or only when a sacrifice was killed upon the altar did God stop killing them for their sins.

So, death is the LEGAL PENALTY against sin according to DIVINE JUSTICE and divine justice is revealed symbolically in Leviticus, literally in the Law of God. Hence, Genesis 2:17 prescibes death as the just penalty for sin. Condemnation under the law is in keeping with God's justice.



The Law of God is not contrary to the Holiness or love of God as the Leviticual law provides harmony between both in the sacrifice at the altar where mercy and justice meet.



You do not understand the purpose of the Law of Moses nor see who we are , or our situation as condemned sinners and the Work of Christ to redeem us.

No justification is needed to condemn us again.

 

We know what it means, everything you say is true and we are grateful it has been revealed to us by the NT referring back to prophecies regarding the Messiah
The OT people did not know the name of Jesus as Messiah.
Y.shua or Joshua or any forms are not used in the OT for the Messiah. I think it is used four times for other individuals.
They knew of a Messiah to come. but not the name Jesus

 

Not so.
Conviction is hard sometimes to over come. Just relax and take a deep breath. I'm still going to express what I believe to be true and I don't care that you get mad about it. I'm not impressed by your temper. It just shows what kind of person you really are.
You are unable to maintain respect for those with whom you disagree. That's too bad. Your on my ignore list.
MB

 

You have to be kidding me? This is the evidence that I believe in works for salvation???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obviously you don't even understand what I am saying or you would make such an insane accusation! My quotation below is not about salvation but about condemnation due to sin being condemned to death. I am simply proving that sin is the violation of the law and violation of the law brings the condemnation of death. I illustrate this in the Levitical system where the animal must die. The sacrifice is a PICTURE of Christ's death for our sins.

Don't ever again falsely accuse me of believing in the law or works for salvation because you will be lying. You don't even understand what you quoted from my other thread.

You should be condemned as you not only teach utter nonsense but you are making false accusations.

 

Rebuke Peter not me as I am only quoting him! Peter repudiates your view.

 

[/QUOTE]
yes, you need further examples that you set set laws so you can keep them, Let me reiterate, the Law does not condemn but shows us a standard . We are condemned without the Law or a knowledge of the Law or your Divine Law You require a standard for your conduct.

I understand your positions and look farther to see your errors.

 

You misapplied Peter words. the error is yours. Accept it or show me a verse that identifies the Messiah as Jesus in the OT

 

It has nothing to do with being angry! SNIP I placed contextual grammatical facts before you which you can't answer, and so this is how you respond by total nonsense!

 

Please show me where I misaaplied Peter's words? Peter explicitly says he is speaking about Jesus. Show me that is not true from this text?

 

yes, you need further examples that you set set laws so you can keep them, Let me reiterate, the Law does not condemn but shows us a standard . We are condemned without the Law or a knowledge of the Law or your Divine Law You require a standard for your conduct.

I understand your positions and look farther to see your errors.[/QUOTE]

Are you on drugs or something? Using the law to teach that death is a result of violating God's law has NOTHING to do with keeping the law!!! Where did I ever say keep the law? Where did I ever say anyone must keep the law - especially for salvation. STOP LYING or get off your medication so you can think clear.

 

"salvation" is a translation of a Greek noun found in the accusative case which serves as the direct object of the verb "chosen." Every beginning Greek student knows the accusative case is the case of termination of action and is commonly used as the direct object and is the direct object of "chosen" in this verse. In direct contrast "through sanctification and belief of the truth" is a second prepositional phrase which modifies "salvation". Hence, they were chosen to salvation "FROM THE BEGINNING" but "sanctification and belief of the truth" occurred with the action of sanctification by the Spirit IN TIME, and IN TIME it is this salvation that is "through sanctification of the Spirit" FIRST "and" SECOND "belief of the truth." There is a contrast of what God did in eternnity past and what the Holy Spirit does in time - God in eternity past chose us unto salvation. The Holy Spirit in time made that salvation occur by "sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." This action in time is the effectual call "whereunto he called us by our gospel to the obtaining of glory."

IN TIME "Sanctification" or "setting apart by the Holy Spirit PRECEDES "belief of the truth" as faith is a fruit of the Spirit and produced in regeneration as regeneration CHANGES THE HEARTS INCLINATION FROM "enmity against God" (Rom. 8:7). Thus verse 14 defines "sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" as the effectual call - "Whereunto ("belief of the truth") he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Likewise, Van is perverting Ephesians2:8. "saved by grace" is "through faith" as one inseparable action because "saved" translates a PERFECT TENSE verb. Do you know the implications of a perfect tense verb with regard to ACTION? I suspect not! A perfect tense verb demands the action has been fully completed in past time and stands completed right up to the time Paul wrote this verse. Since, that completed action is "through faith" this means that "through faith" was part of that completed action or else there is no "saved" completed action at all since that action was completed "through faith." This means that "not of yourselves for it is a gift of God" must necessarily incude the whole phrase "saved by grace through faith" as that is a singular completed action.

Don't give me this nonsense that "not of yoursevles for it is a gift of God" is neuter ("it") and can't modify "faith" because faith is feminine!! That is complete and utter nonsense BECAUSE THERE IS NO FEMININE found in any of the words "saved by grace through faith" and so if that argument were true "it" could not refer to "saved" or "faith" because neither is feminine. "It" refers to the whole phrase and MUST because the whole phrase is grammatically ONE COMPLETED ACTION MAKING "SAVED" INSEPARABLE FROM "THROUGH FAITH" WITH REGARD TO THE ACTION.

Moreover, Paul had already told them they were "saved by grace" in verse 5 and the only thing he has added is the prepositional phrase "through faith" and that is what Paul is denying is of works as "saved by grace" obviously is not of works but "by grace" and so the whole point is that Paul is saying "saved by grace through faith" as a completed action IS NOT OF YOURSELVES BUT IS A GIFT OF GOD.

By the way Dr. Daniel B. Wallace agrees with my interpretation of Ephesians 2:8 and I quote:

"More plausible is the third view, vi., that touto refers to the conept of a grace-by-faith salvation" - Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996 - p. 335

Wallace completely ignores the perfect tense completed action of "saved" and its impact upon "through faith" as inseparable in action, as well as the contextual flow from verse 5 to verse 8. Why? Because that would force him to come to my conclusion


Now, to the rest of our readers, We have taken out everything that can be used as an excuse not to deal with the grammatical evidences above. Let's see if those who oppose me can provid any substantive proofs that I am wrong!

 

Note the deflection, with no acknowledgement of the truth of the post. Nuff said

 

It is all after the Resurrection ,Jesus as Christ was revealed and His work was finished.

Rahab and the OT saints did not know as we know

 

You made the charge that I was misrepresenting Peter's words and so point out precisely where I misrepresented Him - show me that the pronouns from verses 38-43 do not refer the name "Jesus" in verse 38? Either stop making false accusations and admit your wrong or show me and the other readers the evidence for your charge!