Featured Truth, lies, and video tape :-)

The "Enabling Scenario" is concocted to justify wrong doing. The old "it is ok to torture a guy for the location of a nuke to save a million lives" routine.

Satan is the father of lies.

As my Pastor used to say, "It is never right to do wrong to get a chance to do right."

 

I would brutally torture a man to save the lives of a million men. If someone kidnapped my son and I caught him and he did not have my son with him, I would torture him to save the life of my son. If need be, I would torture him in ways that would make a serial killer blush in shame.

My pastor used to have the same opinion as your pastor. After I pinned him down on Rehab, he now has my view. Your pastor is to heavenly minded to be of any earthly good.

 

It's quite obvious they were right. Just as the Germans who hid Jews were right.

 

God does not need or want our lies.

 

My friends and I heard a lot of that nonsense and recognized many lies told from the pulpit and popular Christian books. What was the effect? The effect was to doubt the credibility of Christian leaders, the Christian faith, and take the side of the musicians who were being falsely accused.

God does not need our want our lies.

The only upside to that experience was that when my faith was eventually restored, thanks to the grace of God, I was quite skeptical of many of the popular "social issues" books and would research every footnote to determine whether or not the book was true. That's one of the things that tipped me off to the deception of David Barton and the "Christian America" movement that became popular in the 1990s.

 

In the cases I experienced, they were obviously lies. I also talked to my pastor regarding the falsehood he was telling from the pulpit, explaining that I thought he was making good points about the immorality of much of the music, but he was using false information to make his points.

His response? He reamed me out for daring to point out errors and "trying to justify my sin." Frankly, I really didn't care for most of the groups he attacked. I learned that the pastor was not someone who could be trusted to love the truth.

 

Ooohhh

 

I just wonder do you feel better now you've gotten that off your chest. Having choice is what scripture states and you deny it. It's a God given right to choose life or death all you need to do is accept it. What I believe is no more a lie than what you believe.
MB

 

About doing a wrong in order to do right. I would lie like the devil to save my loved one's from an assassin. Besides I've never met anyone who doesn't lie at some point
MB

 

Give an example.

 

The pastors I knew were sincere but had received misinformation.

 

I wouldn't believe everything you've heard. Besides no one is perfect except Jesus Christ.
We could sit around and gossip all day long but really what good would come of it? I can't help it I hate gossip even though I myself have been known to say a few negative words about people from time to time. When it is you the gossip is about you really find out who are really your friends.
MB

 

My view is biblical, you view is not.

 

I would say that it is more Biblical to save an innocent life than to spare the life of an evil man.
How do you fit the death angel sent to Egypt into your Biblical interpretation?

 

Sir, the ends never justify the means. Otherwise, someone can justify anything. Jesus taught we should always do what is right.

 

Torturing can work but many times it doesn't. Notice how many Baptists and Christians it did not work against. The Nazi's and Stalin happily tortured their victims. With all of the WWII documentaries out there, I haven't seen a single one where torture "saved" the day. If someone is capable of planting a nuke, they are also quite capable of giving false information until time runs out and the nuke goes off.

Matthew 10:16 NLT
“Look, I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. So be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves.

One needs to be smart about what to do and although I can't find a passage specifically against torture, I will point out who are the ones who have historically done torture as well as point out their lack of success in doing anything but causing pain. In addition, not one time in the Old Testament does the Bible condone a cruel torturous death as was common with ancient cultures at the time.

I believe there is a reason to have self-defense and I won't go so far as some do to say that all killing is wrong.

Luke 3:10-14 NLT
[10]The crowds asked, “What should we do?”
[11] John replied, “If you have two shirts, give one to the poor. If you have food, share it with those who are hungry.”
[12] Even corrupt tax collectors came to be baptized and asked, “Teacher, what should we do?”
[13] He replied, “Collect no more taxes than the government requires.”
[14] “What should we do?” asked some soldiers. John replied, “Don’t extort money or make false accusations. And be content with your pay.”

I include the other verses because some claimed that that John's replies were not vocation specific and from the full passage, this is clearly not the case. Obviously, John did not have a problem with soldiers doing their job which at times included defending themselves and killing people. But Roman soldiers also gave lashes and crucified people. Why was extorting money the thing John brought up? In any case, I have difficulty finding clear cut passages to condemn your hypothetical, but I feel that there will probably be a better way in reality than torture.

 

Torture works. Does it work every time? No. Most times? Yes.

 

link?

The angelic, pure and peaceable nature of his performances aside, don't you believe in the influence of the Devil? We're told that men outside of Christ are taken captive by him at his will.

So whether or not the name change came to him while using a Ouija board, it is not a lie for a man to state his opinion that the name change was influenced by the Devil. It may be an ill-advised statement. Might be wacko. Might be devilish itself like Cooper's decorum on stage, but you shouldn't accuse people who make judgments with which you disagree "liars."

LOL. No one has to listen to him long to come to that conclusion. In fact, one must glean from Stanley's verbosity obscure evidence to the contrary. Stanley is neither worth listening to nor defending.

Again, you're simply engaging in ad hominem to call these people liars

Government conspiracy theorists really believe it. They're not lying.

You argue like a Dem in politics. "Cutting school funding will kill children! Question: Should we kill children?!" (Well...at least the way they argued in the nineties. We now know they've been the ones wanting to kill children all along.)

BTW, shoulda called this thread "Sects, Lies and Videotape."