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Where Does Faith Come From?
- Thread starter Reformed1689
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Seeing as we were made in the image of God, at that time we were given faith. We do not need an extra measure of grace later on the God given faith has been part of our God given make up since Adam. We, in our corrupted minds struggle with faith in God but His Word says that Faith comes from the gospel being delivered to us, understood, and believed. (Romans 1:16, 10:13-17)
Scripture teaches it does not come from irresistible grace, Matthew 23:13.
Scripture teaches our faith is ours, using the terms "his faith" or "your faith" more than 10 times. How many times does it say "your God given faith?" Not once.
The "where does faith come from" question is a standard off the shelf Calvinist ploy. Even when a person "receives the gospel with joy" they are said that they didn't.
Every verse is denied. Go figure
Scripture teaches our faith is ours, using the terms "his faith" or "your faith" more than 10 times. How many times does it say "your God given faith?" Not once.
The "where does faith come from" question is a standard off the shelf Calvinist ploy. Even when a person "receives the gospel with joy" they are said that they didn't.
Every verse is denied. Go figure
David, by faith I assume you mean saving faith. The answer to that question depends on how you view the spiritual condition of the sinner. The Reformed view believes the Bible clearly and unambiguously teaches that sinners are spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13) and unable to spiritually appraise and respond to the Gospel while in their sinful state (Romans 8:7-8:1 Corinthians 2:14). That means the sinner cannot exercise saving faith because he does not possess it. It is God who initiates the call to salvation, regenerates the sinner, and makes saving faith possible (Ephesians 2:4-9).
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
That makes no sense.
Matthew 23:13 teaches no such thing.
Yes
I disagree. It doesn't change based on what someone believes. There is only one right answer.
If not for the Faith of Jesus Christ, I have no Faith!... Brother Glen
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
To you it makes no sense because you struggle to see past your own doctrine. It may be possible you and I define faith differently. God gave us our ability to think, analyze, put faith in, trust, believe etc. at the time He created us. It is built into our ability to reason and come to conclusions. Faith is a result of that. We have always had the ability to have faith in a great many things.
We struggle to have faith in things due to our environment and experiences. Sometimes our own reasoning works against us. Our perception of things is often flawed. But that does not change the fact that if we can get past our flawed perceptions and emotions that we can and always have been able to have faith (believe) in whatever we choose to believe in.
Then comes the gospel which has in it the power of truth, the HS, and to change lives. Our ability to have faith (believe, trust in) is already there from the beginning of creation. It is certainly interfered with but it has never been taken away from us.
According to 1 Cor 9 if we look at things through a worldly lens then we will struggle to see godly things. That is the great thing about the gospel. It places reality though the lens of the Savior and has the ability to change our perspective. Those who want to hold on to their worldly perspective never do. You have a focus on some mystical faith that is cast upon us which is not ever shown in scripture. That is just not where faith comes from. Romans 1:16, and 10:17 are both very clear. At no time does scripture present faith as being mystical or a second measure of grace from God.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No actually I don't.
Ok, maybe I am wrong. Where then do you see faith coming from?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Faith is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-9
How is the gift given to us? Do you see it being inserted into our hearts, by God, at the time God is ready for us to be in Christ?
With respect, if you start with the assumption that the sinner is not totally depraved and not totally unable (spiritually), then faith is something the sinner possesses independent from God. However, if the sinner is spiritually dead, he is also totally unable to exercise saving faith apart from God granting him the ability to do so through regeneration.
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atpollard
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TRUTH does not change, but Truth belongs to God. Men have only opinions that we believe to be true ...
... and scripture, which we must “correctly divide” to obtain the Truth contained therein.
It is impossible to have anything independent from God. Our faith was given to us at creation as we are made in the image of God. Since we are created by God there is nothing that is independent of God. It is a false accusation.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I think “a false accusation” is too strong a response. After all, God did not create Adam and Eve and Mitchell and Arthur ‘at the creation’ and God did not create our ‘flesh’ (innate propensity to sin). So there are some things that we (you and I) inherited and some things (like Justification) that God has given us. I believe that the only point that Reformed was attempting to make was that those that start from the position that FAITH is not a special gift from God to the Elect, then you are starting from the assumption that sinners are born with faith (and do not require a separate gift of faith from God to have faith).
I do not believe it was intended as any sort of a personal attack or an attempt to misrepresent what YOU personally believe. It was just a presentation of two logical starting positions.
1. People are born with faith.
2. People are born without faith.
That is not what he said. What you said here and what he said are two distinctly different things. He said: "hen faith is something the sinner possesses independent from God." it is just false even when faith is not a special gift to the elect. The explanation of that is in prior posts in this thread.
Did God give man the sin nature?
Point taken. However, posts 2 and 7 stand.
Saving faith is a gift from God. We also have the faith that comes from hearing The Word. We have a third type, a natural faith that comes from experience and observation.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Faith originates from John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”
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