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Christians, War, and Violence

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
How do you balance living in a violent world with the teachings of Christ? For starters, I believe God is the same God of war as always. But the role of believers is different in the New Covenant. That is, we love our enemies, turn the other cheek when attacked. We do not resist violence but abandon it to the Lord who says vengeance belongs to him.

So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer whose life depends on doing the opposite of these. If an intruder tries to kill me or my family, I would rather we die upholding Jesus’ words than disobey only to suffer death from old age. Any alternative views on this?
 
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Hollow Man

Active Member
1689Dave said:
So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer whose life depends on doing the opposite of these. If an intruder tries to kill me or my family, I would rather we die upholding Jesus’ words than disobey only to suffer death from old age. Any alternative views on this?
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That's very noble of you, sacrificing your family's life for your principles like that.

I'm the opposite. If somebody threatens my family, I'm going to make Jack Bauer look like a girl scout.
 
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Hollow Man

Active Member
1689Dave said:
WWJD?
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You mean the pacifist Jesus who commanded Israel to wipe out several neighboring peoples, who destroyed literally every living thing on the planet with the exception of eight people and a handful of animals, who ordered capital punishment for a host of sins, who beat money changers, who repeatedly used militaristic language and described Himself returning with an army to vanquish His enemies, and commanded His disciples to go out and by swords to protect themselves with? That Jesus? Simple. He'd have me defend the innocent from harm, particularly my family, over whom He has given me authority and the responsibility of protection.

Try getting your theology from someplace other than bumper stickers.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Hollow Man said:
You mean the pacifist Jesus who commanded Israel to wipe out several neighboring peoples, who destroyed literally every living thing on the planet with the exception of eight people and a handful of animals, who ordered capital punishment for a host of sins, who beat money changers, who repeatedly used militaristic language and described Himself returning with an army to vanquish His enemies, and commanded His disciples to go out and by swords to protect themselves with? That Jesus? Simple. He'd have me defend the innocent from harm, particularly my family, over whom He has given me authority and the responsibility of protection.

Try getting your theology from someplace other than bumper stickers.
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God, like I said, is a God of war, behind every war that happens. But our role under the New Covenant is not the same. We live in one of the nations OT Israel would likely have annihilated along with the Canaanites. And we follow Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount instead.
 
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Hollow Man

Active Member
1689Dave said:
God, like I said, is a God of war, behind every war that happens. But our role under the New Covenant is not the same. We live in one of the nations OT Israel would likely have annihilated along with the Canaanites. And we follow Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount instead.
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It's not likely God would have annihilated us, since the nations Israel went to war with were threats to both the existence and the moral integrity of Israel. We would be neither.

Where does the Bible say our role under the New Covenant exempts us from our responsibility to defend the innocent or our families?

Cite your evidence.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Hollow Man said:
It's not likely God would have annihilated us, since the nations Israel went to war with were threats to both the existence and the moral integrity of Israel. We would be neither.

Where does the Bible say our role under the New Covenant exempts us from our responsibility to defend the innocent or our families?

Cite your evidence.
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Who is on first? God or your family?
 
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Hollow Man

Active Member
1689Dave said:
Not really.
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What do you mean "not really"? That's literally what it says.

Was Abraham an unbeliever when offering up Isaac?
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Did God tell Abraham to kill Isaac?

Are we back in the Old Covenant now? Because you keep bouncing back and forth so much, it's hard to tell. Make up your mind.

How is upholding Christ's words to the point of death any different?
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First of all, you haven't cited any of Christ's words where He told us not to defend the innocent or our families. Second, when I just quoted God's Word, you said, "Not really".
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Hollow Man said:
What do you mean "not really"? That's literally what it says.



Did God tell Abraham to kill Isaac?

Are we back in the Old Covenant now? Because you keep bouncing back and forth so much, it's hard to tell. Make up your mind.



First of all, you haven't cited any of Christ's words where He told us not to defend the innocent or our families. Second, when I just quoted God's Word, you said, "Not really".
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Challenge, where does Jesus teach your views?
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
God's word = God's word in both cases.
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You misused God's word to create a doctrine out of thin air such as love your enemies. That statement was not intended to be used in the way you are using it. It is eisegetical at best and outright twisting at the worst.
 
Jerome

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer
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ARBCA • 1689 Confession

Confession 24:1-2

"God, the supreme Lord and King of all the world, hath ordained civil magistrates to be under him, over the people, for his own glory and the public good; and to this end hath armed them with the power of the sword, for defence and encouragement of them that do good, and for the punishment of evil doers. It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called there unto; in the management whereof, as they ought especially to maintain justice and peace, according to the wholesome laws of each kingdom and commonwealth, so for that end they may lawfully now, under the New Testament wage war upon just and necessary occasions."
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Jerome said:
ARBCA • 1689 Confession

Confession 24:1-2

"God, the supreme Lord and King of all the world, hath ordained civil magistrates to be under him, over the people, for his own glory and the public good; and to this end hath armed them with the power of the sword, for defence and encouragement of them that do good, and for the punishment of evil doers. It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called there unto; in the management whereof, as they ought especially to maintain justice and peace, according to the wholesome laws of each kingdom and commonwealth, so for that end they may lawfully now, under the New Testament wage war upon just and necessary occasions."
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But Christians are no where said to be executors of God's wrath.
 
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