How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

[InTheLight]

Free will cannot exist without law and law cannot exist without free will. Free will makes the gospel law as long at it is present in anyone's thinking.

Thirteen times.

You really are a lousy debater. Your error is certainly entertaining.

 

[1689Dave]

It's in my signature. #4 means you presented a strawman argument. You incorrectly stated Calminian's beliefs when you said,

"If you think we save ourselves by forcing our flesh to believe in a Christ"

That's a #4, a strawman argument.

Then you said:

"our faith is reckoned as filthy rags."

That's a #1, the word in that verse actually means something else.

You are taking the word righteousness in Isaiah 64:6 and saying it means "our faith". That's a #1.

If what I said wasn't true, it would be obvious and you would not need to work so hard trying to prove otherwise.

 

[InTheLight]

If what I said wasn't true, it would be obvious and you would not need to work so hard trying to prove otherwise.

Wow, kind of a reverse #5. Bravo!

 

[InTheLight]

If what I said wasn't true, it would be obvious and you would not need to work so hard trying to prove otherwise.

If what you're saying was true you wouldn't need to restate it thirteen times like a mantra and you would have someone, anyone supporting your position. But you don't. Instead you have several long time posters taking you to the woodshed.

 

[1689Dave]

If what you're saying was true you wouldn't need to restate it thirteen times like a mantra and you would have someone, anyone supporting your position. But you don't. Instead you have several long time posters taking you to the woodshed.

You cannot alter the definition of law. Nor deny that the gospel becomes such when associated with free will.

 

[1689Dave]

Wow, kind of a reverse #5. Bravo!

You need to write an alternative article showing how the gospel is not law when placed under free will theory.

 

[Calminian]

If you think we save ourselves by forcing our flesh to believe in a Christ we can't even discern, our faith is reckoned as filthy rags.

It's a shame you can't hear what I've been saying. I realize you're juggling a lot of conversations which can get confusing.

Bottomline, the reason you don't get my point is because you don't understand that it is God's reckoning of faith that saves us. You view faith as a merit, therefore you deny freewill to avoid any merit. It's commendable you're trying to avoid merit, but it comes from confusion about faith and reckoning. I think I'll back off, as you have your hands full.

 

[1689Dave]

It's a shame you can't hear what I've been saying. I realize you're juggling a lot of conversations which can get confusing.

Bottomline, the reason you don't get my point is because you don't understand that it is God's reckoning of faith that saves us. You view faith as a merit, therefore you deny freewill to avoid any merit. It's commendable you're trying to avoid merit, but it comes from confusion about faith and reckoning. I think I'll back off, as you have your hands full.

I hear you, that's the problem. You still turn the gospel into law and grace into works if faith in any form is of human origin.

 

[InTheLight]

You need to write an alternative article showing how the gospel is not law when placed under free will theory.

I need to write an article to rebut an argument that doesn't exist except in your mind?

Pass.

 

[1689Dave]

I need to write an article to rebut an argument that doesn't exist except in your mind?

Pass.

You should prove me wrong with an alternative article showing how the gospel does not become law when made conditional.

 

[Revmitchell]

A law is a law. And if you make the gospel conditional, you make it into a law.

Strawman I do not make it conditional

 

[1689Dave]

Strawman I do not make it conditional

But, free will says you must save yourself by meeting certain conditions = the gospel becomes law.

 

[InTheLight]

You should prove me wrong with an alternative article showing how the gospel does not become law when made conditional.

The gospel does not become law via free will.

Ya happy?

I can repeat it fifteen times if you like.

 

[InTheLight]

But, free will says you must save yourself by meeting certain conditions = the gospel becomes law.

#4

 

[Calminian]

I hear you, that's the problem. You still turn the gospel into law and grace into works if faith in any form is of human origin.

Just curious though why you won't address what I've said.

I get disagreements, and give and take, addressing the others points, etc. I've dialoged with many of your view. Doesn't seem you want to engage at all, just continue to make the same charge. Just saying.

 

[Revmitchell]

But, free will says you must save yourself by meeting certain conditions = the gospel becomes law.

Strawman

 

[1689Dave]

Strawman

Lay it out so we can see.

 

[1689Dave]

Just curious though why you won't address what I've said.

I get disagreements, and give and take, addressing the others points, etc. I've dialoged with many of your view. Doesn't seem you want to engage at all, just continue to make the same charge. Just saying.

Your starting point is off. We need to deal with that and the rest goes away.

 

[Calminian]

Your starting point is off. We need to deal with that and the rest goes away.

Fine. So explain. My starting point is that reckoning and faith are 2 different things and that salvation comes at the point God reckons one's faith as righteousness.

I'd like you to explain what you believe reckoning or accounting or crediting means. Let's start there.

Rom. 4:4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:​

 

[1689Dave]

Fine. So explain. My starting point is that reckoning and faith are 2 differ things and that salvation comes at the point God reckons one's faith as righteousness.

I'd like you to explain what you believe reckoning means. Let's start there.

Both faith and reckoning come from God.