RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.

[Yeshua1]

Hello Dave, no need for thanks as it is God's Word not mine. All thanks be to him.

God bless

You quote the scriptures, but misapply and misunderstand them!

 

[3rdAngel]

You quote the scriptures, but misapply and misunderstand them!

You have been provided God's Word which are not my words. It is God's Word not my words that teach that receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word not me. In response you provide your own words which are not Gods Word to argue against God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4.

 

[Yeshua1]

You have been provided God's Word which are not my words. It is God's Word not my words that teach that receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word not me. In response you provide your own words which are not Gods Word to argue against God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4.

Your interpretation is not inspired though, and that is what I reject here!

 

[3rdAngel]

Your interpretation is not inspired though, and that is what I reject here!

Yet here you still are arguing your words over God's Word and you cannot show why it is from the scriptures you disagree. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it and you have provided none. Does this not worry you? It should.

 

[3rdAngel]

Question: Why are we warned not to Grieive God's Spirit and if we continue to grieve God's Spirit what can the results be?

 

[1689Dave]

Question: Why are we warned not to Grieive God's Spirit and if we continue to grieve God's Spirit what can the results be?

If you are saved, it = possible severe chastisement. The kind you never want to experience and never forget once you do. (King David for instants). From the voice of experience....

 

[Alan Gross]

Receiving God's Spirit is condional on believing and following God's Word. If we are not born of the Spirit we are still in our sins. When Christ was with his disciples God's Spirit was not in them it was with them. It was not until the death of Jesus that the outpouring of God's Spirit was given to the dsciples.

JOHN 7:38-39
[38], He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. [39], But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

JOHN 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Christ’s glorification and His ascension to heaven were necessary BEFORE the Holy Spirit could be given to His disciples. While He was alive as a human being, He told His disciples that He was WITH them, but He also said that there would come the time when He would be IN them. He referred, first, to His presence as a Man who was WITH them, but in the future, to the gift of His Holy Spirit which would dwell IN them (John 14:17). But in order for Christ to dwell IN His disciples (John 14:18; Galatians 2:20), through the Holy Spirit, He had to be first glorified with the glory which He had BEFORE He became a human being (John 17:5). As a mere human being, He could not live IN somebody else. That could only happen after He became again a glorified being.

When a true disciple of Christ receives God’s Holy Spirit, it is the Spirit of the Father AND the Son which emanates from both glorified God beings, and which dwells in the disciple (John 14:23; Romans 8:11, 14-17; Romans 8:9, second part; Galatians 4:6; Philippians 1:19).

...........

JOHN 3:3-8
[3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.
[8], The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

ACT 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

ROMANS 8:1-14
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5], For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6], For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7], Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8], So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9], But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10], And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11], But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.
[12], Therefore, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

...........

QUESTION FOR THE OP

Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?

Nope. This is all Utter confusion. Liberal, Liberals that are Liberial minded aren't going to listen to me. That's too much work. You'd have to start back somewhere and learn something about The Holy Spirit.

When God wants someone to know something about The Bible, He Will Make them Willing.

Then, there is such a thing as 'false prophets', which would explain why they just are wrong and not able or willing to learn a thing.

The misunderstanding of 'deciples not having the Spirit inside them' has to be dismissed, since all Saved souls have The Holy Spirit.

When the concept of a 'church' that is actually in The Bible is hid from the wise and prudent, then why would they decern that 'The Spirit that had not Coke', was the Holy Spirit to Publically Inugurate Jesus' church assembly, on Pentecost, not any individual, or anything to do with Salvation.

This is the Bible Teaching.

The other will always be junk and error.

I could go through them, but God would have to Give someone the Will bke be Teachable.

...

Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?

If someone has something they can lose, the faster they lose it and Get Jesus, the better.

 

[Alan Gross]

SALVATION AND GOD'S PROMISES ARE CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD

THE LITTLE WORD “IF” DEMONSTRATES IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT HEBREW AND GREEK SCRIPTURES THAT SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO BOTH BELIEVE AND FOLLOW (FRUIT) GOD'S WORD (present tense) OR NOT TO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD.

OLD TESTAMENT (Not definitive)

“IF” (Hebrew) *H518; אם;'im; A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo !; interrogitive, whether ?; or conditional, if, although ; also Oh that !, when ; hence as a negative, not: - (and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

We must do well according to Gods' Word (believe and follow) in order to be accepted...

GENESIS 4:7 IF (conditional) you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.

Consequences for not believing and following...

GENESIS 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for you, and you shall live: and IF (conditional) you restore her not, know you that you shall surely die, you, and all that are yours.

EXODUS 4:23 And I say to you, let my son go, that he may serve me: and IF (conditional) you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, even your firstborn.

Blessings for believing and following...

EXODUS 15:26 And said, IF (conditional) you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

LEVITICUS 26:3-5 [3], IF (conditional) you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; [4] THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. [5], And your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

LEVITICUS 26:14-18 [14], But IF (conditional) you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; [15] And IF (conditional) you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant: [16], I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. [17], And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you. [18], And IF (conditional) you will not yet for all this listen to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

There are too mant more to write so may stop here for the Old Testament scriptures and maybe post some more latter.

..............

NEW TESTAMENT (not definitive)

“IF” (Greek) *G1437; אםἐάν; ean; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty : - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever)., See G3361.

God's forgiveness is conditional...

I JOHN 1:9 [9], IF (conditional) we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

MATTHEW 6:14-15 [14], For IF (conditional) you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15], But IF (conditional) you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Being a disciple we must follow what Jesus says...

MATTHEW 16:24 Then said Jesus to his disciples, IF (conditional) any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Conditons for inheriting eternal life...

MATTHEW 19:16-19 [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I DO, that I may have eternal life? [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF (conditional) you will enter into life, keep the commandments. [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, [19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF (conditional) any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

JOHN 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for IF (conditional) you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF (conditional) you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, IF you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

JOHN 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, IF (conditional) a man keeps my saying, he shall never see death.

God only hears those who are following His Word...

JOHN 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but IF (conditional) any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

JOHN 14:15 IF (conditional) you love me, keep my commandments.

JOHN 15:10 IF (conditional) you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

JOHN 15:14 You are my friends, IF (conditional) you do whatever I command you.

JOHN 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, IF (conditional) a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stay with him.

JOHN 15:6-7 [6], IF (conditional) a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF (conditional) you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.

What does it mean to believe in God? Let's look at this in the next post...

Nope.

 

[Alan Gross]

WRONG!

Now brother you have not provided a single scripture here that says we cannot choose to believe and follow God's Word. We do indeed have a corrupt nature but God has given us a free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not believe and follow God's Word. While is it God's Work to change the heart, God does not change our heart unless we believe His Word. It is the Spirit the quickeneth the flesh profits nothing the Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *JOHN 6:63. It is the Word of God that is given us from heaven. All we can do is to choose to believe or not believe God's Word and it is this very Word that brings faith and draws us to JESUS (the living Word of God) *ROMANS 10:17.

SOME INTERESTING SCRIPTURES ON FREE WILL

PHILEMON 1:14 (different translations)

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, BUT ONE OF FREE WILL.

(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, BUT BY THE FREE WILL

(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me OUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL WITHOUT FEELING FORCED TO DO IT

(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL

(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FREE WILL

(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND NOT OF COMPULSION.

(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity BUT OF FREE WILL.

(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force BUT OF FREE WILL.

(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion BUT OF FREE WILL. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.

(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(NASB95)14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(TEV)14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

and you can add both the NEB and the REB

CT 14but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, BUT OF FREE WILL.

NENT 14but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, BUT ACCORDING TO FREE WILL..

(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

............

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
Free will is a will not under compulsion
Free will is consensual
Free will is a will not forced

............

Let's look at the alternate translations in the next post and also look at the whole scripture context in the next post and we will see that whatever translation we use we still get the same meaning of the scripture in regards to man having free will!

We've been through all this ridiculous silliness.

Paul was willing to forgive without having it look like he was forced.

Paul had a Salvation experience, having previously been lost.

This Saved individual, Paul, had a will to forgive and the verse has zero to do with a lost person having some will for something.

This is blind silliness.

Reading ability should at least be learned before trying to invent false religious error.

 

[37818]

Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?

". . . And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; . . ." -- John 14:16.

". . . But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. . . ." -- Romans 8:9.

". . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . ." -- 1 John 5:12.

". . . Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? . . . ." -- 2 Corinthians 13:5.

 

[3rdAngel]

". . . And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; . . ." -- John 14:16.

". . . But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. . . ." -- Romans 8:9.

". . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . ." -- 1 John 5:12.

". . . Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? . . . ." -- 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Thank you for sharing the scriptures but none of the scriptures you have provided brother answer the question posed which was...

3rdAngel said: ↑ Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?

God bless

 

[3rdAngel]

If you are saved, it = possible severe chastisement. The kind you never want to experience and never forget once you do. (King David for instants). From the voice of experience....

Indeed David, but King David repented of His sins. What about those who continue to grieve God's Spirit and do not repent of their sins?

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope. This is all Utter confusion. Liberal, Liberals that are Liberial minded aren't going to listen to me. That's too much work. You'd have to start back somewhere and learn something about The Holy Spirit.

When God wants someone to know something about The Bible, He Will Make them Willing.

Then, there is such a thing as 'false prophets', which would explain why they just are wrong and not able or willing to learn a thing.

The misunderstanding of 'deciples not having the Spirit inside them' has to be dismissed, since all Saved souls have The Holy Spirit.

When the concept of a 'church' that is actually in The Bible is hid from the wise and prudent, then why would they decern that 'The Spirit that had not Coke', was the Holy Spirit to Publically Inugurate Jesus' church assembly, on Pentecost, not any individual, or anything to do with Salvation.

This is the Bible Teaching.

The other will always be junk and error.

I could go through them, but God would have to Give someone the Will bke be Teachable.

...


If someone has something they can lose, the faster they lose it and Get Jesus, the better.

Hello Alan, you have only been provided God's Word and God's Word is not my words but God's. You are denying God's Word with your own words and your words have no truth in them.

Let's look at the scriptures and see why...

RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT AND SALVATION ARE CONDITIONAL ON;

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4,

REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and

CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

GRIEVING OR QUENCHING THE HOLY SPIRIT

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

Receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word.

Can you see your error here Alan? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it and you have provided none.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear His Voice.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngle wrote:

SALVATION AND GOD'S PROMISES ARE CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD

THE LITTLE WORD “IF” DEMONSTRATES IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT HEBREW AND GREEK SCRIPTURES THAT SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO BOTH BELIEVE AND FOLLOW (FRUIT) GOD'S WORD (present tense) OR NOT TO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD.

OLD TESTAMENT (Not definitive)

“IF” (Hebrew) *H518; אם;'im; A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo !; interrogitive, whether ?; or conditional, if, although ; also Oh that !, when ; hence as a negative, not: - (and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

We must do well according to Gods' Word (believe and follow) in order to be accepted...

GENESIS 4:7 IF (conditional) you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.

Consequences for not believing and following...

GENESIS 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for you, and you shall live: and IF (conditional) you restore her not, know you that you shall surely die, you, and all that are yours.

EXODUS 4:23 And I say to you, let my son go, that he may serve me: and IF (conditional) you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, even your firstborn.

Blessings for believing and following...

EXODUS 15:26 And said, IF (conditional) you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

LEVITICUS 26:3-5 [3], IF (conditional) you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; [4] THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. [5], And your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

LEVITICUS 26:14-18 [14], But IF (conditional) you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; [15] And IF (conditional) you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant: [16], I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. [17], And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you. [18], And IF (conditional) you will not yet for all this listen to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

There are too mant more to write so may stop here for the Old Testament scriptures and maybe post some more latter.

..............

NEW TESTAMENT (not definitive)

“IF” (Greek) *G1437; אםἐάν; ean; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty : - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever)., See G3361.

God's forgiveness is conditional...

I JOHN 1:9 [9], IF (conditional) we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

MATTHEW 6:14-15 [14], For IF (conditional) you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15], But IF (conditional) you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Being a disciple we must follow what Jesus says...

MATTHEW 16:24 Then said Jesus to his disciples, IF (conditional) any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Conditons for inheriting eternal life...

MATTHEW 19:16-19 [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I DO, that I may have eternal life? [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF (conditional) you will enter into life, keep the commandments. [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, [19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF (conditional) any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

JOHN 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for IF (conditional) you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF (conditional) you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

JOHN 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, IF you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

JOHN 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, IF (conditional) a man keeps my saying, he shall never see death.

God only hears those who are following His Word...

JOHN 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but IF (conditional) any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

JOHN 14:15 IF (conditional) you love me, keep my commandments.

JOHN 15:10 IF (conditional) you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

JOHN 15:14 You are my friends, IF (conditional) you do whatever I command you.

JOHN 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, IF (conditional) a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stay with him.

JOHN 15:6-7 [6], IF (conditional) a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF (conditional) you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.

What does it mean to believe in God? Let's look at this in the next post...

Your response...

Nope.

Well Alan, you have to deny a lot of scripture to say that. These are God's Word that you deny not mine. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. Why do you not believe God's Word?

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear His Voice are not His Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑

WRONG!

Now brother you have not provided a single scripture here that says we cannot choose to believe and follow God's Word. We do indeed have a corrupt nature but God has given us a free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not believe and follow God's Word. While is it God's Work to change the heart, God does not change our heart unless we believe His Word. It is the Spirit the quickeneth the flesh profits nothing the Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *JOHN 6:63. It is the Word of God that is given us from heaven. All we can do is to choose to believe or not believe God's Word and it is this very Word that brings faith and draws us to JESUS (the living Word of God) *ROMANS 10:17.

SOME INTERESTING SCRIPTURES ON FREE WILL

PHILEMON 1:14 (different translations)

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, BUT ONE OF FREE WILL.

(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, BUT BY THE FREE WILL

(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me OUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL WITHOUT FEELING FORCED TO DO IT

(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL

(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FREE WILL

(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND NOT OF COMPULSION.

(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity BUT OF FREE WILL.

(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force BUT OF FREE WILL.

(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion BUT OF FREE WILL. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.

(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(NASB95)14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(TEV)14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

and you can add both the NEB and the REB

CT 14but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, BUT OF FREE WILL.

NENT 14but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, BUT ACCORDING TO FREE WILL..

(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

............

ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
Free will is a will not under compulsion
Free will is consensual
Free will is a will not forced

............

Let's look at the alternate translations in the next post and also look at the whole scripture context in the next post and we will see that whatever translation we use we still get the same meaning of the scripture in regards to man having free will!

Your response...

We've been through all this ridiculous silliness.

Paul was willing to forgive without having it look like he was forced.

Paul had a Salvation experience, having previously been lost.

This Saved individual, Paul, had a will to forgive and the verse has zero to do with a lost person having some will for something.

This is blind silliness.

Reading ability should at least be learned before trying to invent false religious error.

All I hear Alan is your words denying God's Word and the scriptures that are provided and only sent in love as a help to you. God's Word is not silliness but God's Word and you deny His Word which are not my words but God's.

You do not have to believe God's Word if you do not want to because we all answer to God come judgment day but you denying God's Word does not make it dissappear as it is these very words of God we deny that will testify against us when we did not know the day of our visitation.

JESUS says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world but he that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Better to believe God's Word and follow what God's says then to deny God's Word with our own. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word dies not make it dissappear.

God's Sheep hear His Voice and follow him.

 

[37818]

Thank you for sharing the scriptures but none of the scriptures you have provided brother answer the question posed which was...


God bless

You do not think so.

Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?

". . . And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; . . ." -- John 14:16.
<snip>

That first reference is understood to mean once received He will never leave. (1 John 5:12; Hebrews 13:5).

 

[3rdAngel]

You do not think so.

That first reference is understood to mean once received He will never leave. (1 John 5:12; Hebrews 13:5).

Yes brother you did not answer the question. The scriptures you provided say God does not leave or forsake those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word ("present tense active verb; BELIEVING). This is something I believe. These scriptures do not say that God does not leave those who once believed yesterday and have fallen away and departed the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin to become unbelievers today. *HEBREWS 6:4-8. This is why there are so many WARNING all through the scriptures not to GRIEVE and put out Gods Spirit by not believing and following His Word *EPHESIANS 4:13; 1 THESSALONIANS 5:19.

God bless

 

[37818]

. . . unrepentant sin . . .

Give the reference.

 

[3rdAngel]

Give the reference.

You part quoted me here brother. Did you mean where it was posted...

"These scriptures do not say that God does not leave those who once believed yesterday and have fallen away and departed the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin to become unbelievers today *HEBREWS 6:4-8."

The scripture reference was provided at the end of the statement *HEBREWS 6:4-8 but you can also add HEBREWS 10:26-38 if you like. If you need some more please let me know.

God bless

 

[Alan Gross]

Hello Alan, you have only been provided God's Word and God's Word is not my words but God's. You are denying God's Word with your own words and your words have no truth in them.

Let's look at the scriptures and see why...

RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT AND SALVATION ARE CONDITIONAL ON;

FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4,

REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and

CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

GRIEVING OR QUENCHING THE HOLY SPIRIT

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

Receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word.

Can you see your error here Alan? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it and you have provided none.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear His Voice.

Hope this is helpful.

It might be more convencing that you have all of this figured out, if thoughts like this word, 'Faith', had Scriptures you listed with it, that included the word, 'faith', in them, somewhere.


FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4,

Did you know to do good by listing Scripture references with the word, 'faith', in them, to try and substantiate your knowlegde of 'faith', and you didn't do it?

... and listed Scriptures without the word 'faith' in them?

You just sinned and according to you, you just became lost, and you can't be renewed again, because Jesus would have to die again.

You screwed up.