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WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 17, 2019.

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  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Rubbish! How can those in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 according to you "NOT BELIEVE" when Paul puts himself in the same WARNINGS to BELIEVERS "IF WE (BELIEVERS) SIN after we receive a knowledge of the truth HEBREWS 10:26.

    Also please explain how these people accorinding to you "DID NOT BELIEVE" when accoding to God's Word (not mine) it is written...

    1. They were once enlightened (means to KNOW); HEBREWS 6:4
    2. Tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
    3. Were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
    4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
    5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5

    You say they were not believers but God's Word says they were not only "ONCE BELIEVERS" but had received the "HOLY SPIRIT"! I know who I believe and follow brother and it is not you. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

    Every word I have provided here is God's Word. God's Word is not my words but Gods' but you deny God's Word with your own words because you do not believe.

    Gods' Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him.
     
    #221 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    HEBREWS 6:9 only supports the OP and the scriptures shared in them. As the WARNING is to "BELIEVERS" not to FALL AWAY and depart the faith.
     
    #222 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  3. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    We don't know if Paul wrote Hebrews. I doubt it.

    Regardless, the Bible tells us to examine ourselves to make our calling sure.

    2Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.​

    2Pet. 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;​

    Jesus warned there would always be tares in the Church. That's why Pastors need to constantly warn their flock. Some are self deceived.
     
    #223 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  4. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    #224 mailmandan, Sep 23, 2019
  5. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Nope. It says clearly that the author expected better things (not falling away) for those who had salvation. There is a similar statement in Hebrews 10.

    39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.​

    It's clear as day if you're just willing to read and believe. Those who believe in the light are saved and do not fall away.
     
    #225 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Yep! Perhaps you did not read what you were quoting from properly. HEBREWS 6:9 only supports the OP and the scriptures shared in them. As the WARNINGS are to "BELIEVERS" not to FALL AWAY and depart the faith. Are you trying to say now that the WARNINGS given in both HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 are not WARNINGS to "BELIEVERS" not to depart the faith?
     
    #226 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    #227 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Whether Paul wrote the book of HEBREWS I do not know. All I know it is God's Word and we should believe and follow it.
    Indeed something we can agree on and is the reason the OP is written.
     
    #228 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  9. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    They are warnings to the Church, which Jesus said would be filled with wheats and tares. Again, Jesus words, if you're willing to listen.

    Matt. 13:24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, “Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, “An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, “No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”​

    I take Jesus at his word.
     
    #229 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  10. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    The warning is to tares which Jesus said would be in the Church until the end.
     
    #230 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I can understand why you do not want to discuss HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39. It is true that only those who "ENDURE TEMPTATION TO THE END" are the ones that are "SAVED" and "RECEIVE" eternal life. Nothing you have provided from the scriptures say that we cannot depart the faith and fall back into a life of known unrepentant sin. If that were true there would be no need for temptation as it would not matter if we sinned or did not sin. Yet it is Gods' Word alone that says we can BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word yesterday and choose to no longer believe and follow God's Word today *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39. Only those who endure to the end receive everlasting life *JAMES 1:12.
     
    #231 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Nope God's Word is to believers that believe and follow Gods Word. The writer puts himself into the same group *HEBREWS 10:26
     
    #232 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  13. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    That's all i and others have been doing. We're just bringing in context that you don't like. You want to ignore all of Jesus' words, and give your own meanings to enlighten, partake and tasted. Sorry, it just doesn't work like that. You don't get to decide on your own, apart from context, what words mean.

    Jesus told you that enlightenment must be responded to with faith. Jesus told you there's a difference between one who is enlightened and one who is a son of light. The question is, do you believe him?
     
    #233 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Well that is not true. Your not providing any context. Sadly both you and those who believe in the false Gospel of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" have never addressed the scriptures in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 and have ignored the scripture context because it shows you are in error and are seeking to talk and discuss anything outside of the scriptures we are discussing here in the OP. But hey you are free to believe what you wish. We all answer only to God come judgment day. God's Sheep however, hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him.
     
    #234 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Once saved always saved is the Biblical view.

    Eternal life starts at the moment of true faith. Those who are enlightened and respond in faith become sons of light, and children of God. They are sealed with the Holy Spirit and will never be lost.

    Those enlightened who fail to respond in faith are in danger of being cast into darkness. That's why the Hebrews author warns,

    Heb. 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
    “Today, if you will hear His voice,
    8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
    In the day of trial in the wilderness,
    9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
    And saw My works forty years.​

    ...15 while it is said:
    “Today, if you will hear His voice,
    Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”​

    Heb. 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
    “Today, if you will hear His voice,
    Do not harden your hearts.”​

    The author is speaking about men hardening their hearts against God's voice. They hear. They are given light. But they refuse to respond in faith and be saved.

    This is the sad fate of the tare, who partakes and tastes and hears and sees, ........but remains a tare.
     
    #235 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    There is no such thing as "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" This is a false Gospel that has its' origin from the father of lies first preached in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve that cased the fall of mankind *GENESIS 3:1-5. This is why you cannot address the scriptures shared with you that show that both God's SALAVATION and GOD'S PROMISES are all "CONDITIONAL" on BELIVING and FOLLOWING God's Word. The scriptures you have provided here in HEBREWS 3:7-9; 15 and HEBREWS 4:7 are in perfect harmony with what is being shared with you in this OP. If we do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word we are not his people and are in rebellion to God's Word.
     
    #236 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  17. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    There is no such thing as losing salvation. It's a myth, proven by the very passages you cited.
     
    #237 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Rubbish! It is God's Word not mine that says we can depart the faith and return back to a life of known unrepentant sin *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39. God's salvation and his promises from GENESIS to REVELATION are all "CONDITIONAL" on believing and following God's Word. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we do not have salvation. Only those who endure temptation to the end receive eternal life *JAMES 1:12
     
    #238 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
  19. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Your words, not God's.
     
    #239 Calminian, Sep 23, 2019
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  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Then prove it from the scriptures. If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures that are only shared with you in love and as a help to you? Only God's Word is true. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth is come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe and follow his Word *JOHN 4:24; ACTS 17:30-31. God is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see to come out from following man made teachings that lead us away from God's Word back to the pure Word of God.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him.
     
    #240 3rdAngel, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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