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What is a "Traditionalist" Baptist...

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Particular

Particular

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...and why do they dislike the Particular Baptist position?
I'm leaving this here for Traditionalist Baptists to share how their beliefs contrast with a Particular Baptist. The Particular Baptist holds to the 5 points of Calvinism as expressed in response to the Remonstrants.
How are the two Baptist camps different and similar?
 
Reformed

Reformed

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I know you asked for "Traditionalists" to share how their beliefs differ with Particular Baptists (a.k.a. Calvinists), but I want to go on record as stating that "Traditionalist" is a contrived term that serves no other purpose than to provide cover or legitimacy to certain Baptists that disagree with Calvinism. Perhaps they use the term to establish the legitimacy of their beliefs and that they are of old? If that is the case, it is a term that Calvinists and non-Calvinists can use. The term does nothing to indicate what these certain Baptists believe. I know this is going to come off as a poke in the eye of those who consider themselves "Traditionalists" but I do not mean it to be like that. Like you, I want to know what these Traditionalists believe. Can they bullet point their beliefs to make it easy for everyone to understand their doctrinal distinctives?
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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I'm not certain but I think the term "Traditionalist" is used within the SBC to indicate that person is not a Calvinist.

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Reformed

Reformed

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InTheLight said:
I'm not certain but I think the term "Traditionalist" is used within the SBC to indicate that person is not a Calvinist.

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Actually, if true that is pretty funny. I have friends (Calvinists and non-Calvinists) in SBC churches and I have never heard of the term outside of the Baptist Board. I guess I need to get out more.
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
Here is an image found at soteriology101. Apparently Traditionalist and Provisionlist are synonymous terms.
Our Beliefs
8c71d21057e76d92e09ec2eeda15bca5.jpg
 
OldArmy

OldArmy

Member
Particular said:
...and why do they dislike the Particular Baptist position?
I'm leaving this here for Traditionalist Baptists to share how their beliefs contrast with a Particular Baptist. The Particular Baptist holds to the 5 points of Calvinism as expressed in response to the Remonstrants.
How are the two Baptist camps different and similar?
Click to expand...

So "reformed" Baptist? If so it would just seems like Calvinism under another name to me...Dr.James White if I'm not mistaken belongs to a reformed Baptist church. What's different between Particular and 5 point Calvinist? Serious question because I have never heard of Particular...well anything as far as denomination.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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Reformed said:
I know you asked for "Traditionalists" to share how their beliefs differ with Particular Baptists (a.k.a. Calvinists), but I want to go on record as stating that "Traditionalist" is a contrived term that serves no other purpose than to provide cover or legitimacy to certain Baptists that disagree with Calvinism. Perhaps they use the term to establish the legitimacy of their beliefs and that they are of old? If that is the case, it is a term that Calvinists and non-Calvinists can use. The term does nothing to indicate what these certain Baptists believe. I know this is going to come off as a poke in the eye of those who consider themselves "Traditionalists" but I do not mean it to be like that. Like you, I want to know what these Traditionalists believe. Can they bullet point their beliefs to make it easy for everyone to understand their doctrinal distinctives?
Click to expand...
Agreed, it is a made up term to give the reader a leaning that "Oh, that must be the correct position if it is traditional." It is a deceptive tactic.
 
Reformed

Reformed

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OldArmy said:
So "reformed" Baptist? If so it would just seems like Calvinism under another name to me...Dr.James White if I'm not mistaken belongs to a reformed Baptist church. What's different between Particular and 5 point Calvinist? Serious question because I have never heard of Particular...well anything as far as denomination.
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Confessionalism and Covenant Theology. Not every Calvinistic Baptist is the same. James White subscribes to the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a doctrinal statement. He is also a Covenant Theologian as opposed to a Dispensationalist. Those Baptists that refer to themselves as "Reformed" believe similarly. But there are many Calvinistic Baptists who are Dispensational. There is your difference.

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Reformed said:
Confessionalism and Covenant Theology. Not every Calvinistic Baptist is the same. James White subscribes to the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a doctrinal statement. He is also a Covenant Theologian as opposed to a Dispensationalist. Those Baptists that refer to themselves as "Reformed" believe similarly. But there are many Calvinistic Baptists who are Dispensational. There is your difference.

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Then some, like Albert Mohler and myself, believe you have to have pieces of Covenant Theology and also Dispensationalism to be biblically sound :)
 
OldArmy

OldArmy

Member
Reformed said:
Confessionalism and Covenant Theology. Not every Calvinistic Baptist is the same. James White subscribes to the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a doctrinal statement. He is also a Covenant Theologian as opposed to a Dispensationalist. Those Baptists that refer to themselves as "Reformed" believe similarly. But there are many Calvinistic Baptists who are Dispensational. There is your difference.

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Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
 
M

MartyF

Well-Known Member
davidtaylorjr said:
Doubtful since the SBC is historically Calvinist.
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Most of SBC is not Calvinist. I have not personally met any Baptists which have identified as Calvinist - although I have met Presbyterians and Episcopalians. So, no word is usually used.

Armenian, however, is a misnomer. Arminianism is subset of Calvinism. The Council of Dort was a Calvinist spat - only Calvinists were invited. This is why the label "traditionalist" was likely created. As for the history, I believe one would be correct that the very first Baptist churches in America were Calvinist.

"Traditionalism" grew exponentially as the number of Baptist churches grew. By the late 19th Century, "Traditionalists" far outnumbered Calvinists.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
MartyF said:
Most of SBC is not Calvinist. I have not personally met any Baptists which have identified as Calvinist - although I have met Presbyterians and Episcopalians. So, no word is usually used.

Armenian, however, is a misnomer. Arminianism is subset of Calvinism. The Council of Dort was a Calvinist spat - only Calvinists were invited. This is why the label "traditionalist" was likely created. As for the history, I believe one would be correct that the very first Baptist churches in America were Calvinist.

"Traditionalism" grew exponentially as the number of Baptist churches grew. By the late 19th Century, "Traditionalists" far outnumbered Calvinists.
Click to expand...
Dockery: Calvinism has roots in SBC history
 
R

Revmitchell

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MartyF said:
Most of SBC is not Calvinist. I have not personally met any Baptists which have identified as Calvinist - although I have met Presbyterians and Episcopalians. So, no word is usually used.

Armenian, however, is a misnomer. Arminianism is subset of Calvinism. The Council of Dort was a Calvinist spat - only Calvinists were invited. This is why the label "traditionalist" was likely created. As for the history, I believe one would be correct that the very first Baptist churches in America were Calvinist.

"Traditionalism" grew exponentially as the number of Baptist churches grew. By the late 19th Century, "Traditionalists" far outnumbered Calvinists.
Click to expand...

From the founding of the SBC there have always been particular baptists (calvies) and general baptists (everyone else). When someone says that the SBC has been "historically Calvinist" they do not know what they are talking about.
 
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