The SBC had Calvinistic origins. Modern-day SBC people are trying to claim that the non-cals were the traditional sbc members. It is not so. THE / bfm was a watered-down document that has led to a weakening and decline in the SBC.
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What is a "Traditionalist" Baptist...
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This is historically false . Tom Ascol and Dr, Nettles have pointed this out.
Not Calvinist not Arminian.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I could list each and every point and the Scriptural support used, but then I'd not be letting those who actually hold to it, answer for themselves.
I started seeing the term on YouTube videos roughly 2-3 years ago to mostly describe those who hold to a general atonement, a conditional election, eternal security of the believer, and "Prevenient Grace" / "Enabling Grace".
Before that, I'd never heard of "Traditionalism", as it never had a term when I was growing up in Independent Baptist churches, and still attending them until the age of 40 or so.
Similarly, I'd never heard the term "Calvinism" until I was reading Scripture in Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 one day, and my jaw dropped.
After that I went on the Internet and discovered the hornet's nest that I'd found myself in.
Then it took only about 3 years before I quietly left... knowing that I was far outnumbered.
"Traditionalism"?
That's a new one on me.
I think I first saw Kevin Thompson use it on YouTube, as well as Leighton Flowers.
Perhaps it was being used for years before that...
But then I never really was "in the know", even when I was attending the Baptist churches I grew up in...I always felt estranged and left out in those places.
"Provisionism" / "Provisionalism"?
Even newer.
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OldArmy
Member
Care to expand on that?
It is well known that the Southern Baptists broke off with the rest of the Baptists because the Southern Baptists wanted to have slaves.
Anyone who disputes this is as nutty as a Holocaust denier. (Yes, I know there are some here.)
That being said, the SBC corrected their errant theology and moved on. So yes, saying one’s theology dates to the time when the SBC supported racist slavery doesn’t actually improve one’s theological position.
That is why I am more than happy to let Calvinists say that they fully controlled what happened during this time period. Their theology was 100% in charge.
Fisher Humphreys, professor of religion at Samford University's Beeson Divinity School, Birmingham, Ala
"From their beginning, Southern Baptists included both Calvinists and non-Calvinists," Humphreys wrote. "In the century and a half since the convention was formed (in 1845), the trend has been away from Calvinism. Yet Calvinism never died out among Southern Baptists."
E.Y. Mullins was probably one of the most influential of the SBC early leaders. He rejected Calvinistic depravity and limited atonement. R.B.C. Howell was moderately Calvinistic.
Particular
Well-Known Member
It is silly to say that the SBC was founded on slavery. Churches are founded on Christ.
That being said, racism is still a problem in US culture and Christians are not exempt from being a product of their culture. We are, after all, still sinners who God is working on to sanctify us.
There is no church in America that is sin free and in many churches racism still lurks.
So, no Christian theological position in the US is clean when considering racism.
Dockery: Calvinism has roots in SBC history
At the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention in May 1845, it would have been difficult to find leaders who were not Calvinistic in their theology, Dockery said
He distinguished between a Calvinistic denominational leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention and its less Calvinist laity. At that time, however, the question over Calvinism was not plaguing the newly formed denomination. Dockery drew attention to the Calvinistic leanings of the Abstract of Principles, a document written by James P. Boyce that would serve as a doctrinal weathervane for Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, which was founded in 1859 in Greenville, S.C., before it moved to Louisville, Ky. Boyce was president of Southern Seminary from 1859 to 1888.
"Writing theologians have influence," Dockery explained, "and it was the denomination's Calvinist theologians that wrote, such men as James P. Boyce and John Dagg."
At the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention in May 1845, it would have been difficult to find leaders who were not Calvinistic in their theology, Dockery said
He distinguished between a Calvinistic denominational leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention and its less Calvinist laity. At that time, however, the question over Calvinism was not plaguing the newly formed denomination. Dockery drew attention to the Calvinistic leanings of the Abstract of Principles, a document written by James P. Boyce that would serve as a doctrinal weathervane for Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, which was founded in 1859 in Greenville, S.C., before it moved to Louisville, Ky. Boyce was president of Southern Seminary from 1859 to 1888.
"Writing theologians have influence," Dockery explained, "and it was the denomination's Calvinist theologians that wrote, such men as James P. Boyce and John Dagg."
Maintaining Segregation is why the SBC was founded.
The SBC was founded on the single issue of slavery/segregation.
I would refer to myself as a "Traditionalist", although I don't speak for all. I was Saved without anyone preaching to me, and was then discipled in an IFB Church for a few years deep in the mountains of WNC that claimed to be Traditionalist and not Calvinist. I'm not good with Theology or labels.
If I remember correctly the Pastor described our 'Traditionalist' views as the following:
We believe in Once Saved Always Saved, General Atonement, and Each Human can choose to accept/not accept God via our own Free Will. When man accepts then we receive the Holy Spirit.
I won't debate this, but I wanted to at least give you the info of what my old Pastor taught me since I can remember him mentioning that we're not Calvinist, but Traditionalist. I miss that 'ol church. I can remember our old mountain preacher talking to me about how God is the "arthur" of the Bible haha. That Church was where I finally realized what had happened to me when the Pastor explained what being 'Born Again' was. I remember thinking "Hey! That happened to me a few weeks ago! Is that what it's called?!". He is such a good God to us rotten sinners. God Bless Bro/Sis
If I remember correctly the Pastor described our 'Traditionalist' views as the following:
We believe in Once Saved Always Saved, General Atonement, and Each Human can choose to accept/not accept God via our own Free Will. When man accepts then we receive the Holy Spirit.
I won't debate this, but I wanted to at least give you the info of what my old Pastor taught me since I can remember him mentioning that we're not Calvinist, but Traditionalist. I miss that 'ol church. I can remember our old mountain preacher talking to me about how God is the "arthur" of the Bible haha. That Church was where I finally realized what had happened to me when the Pastor explained what being 'Born Again' was. I remember thinking "Hey! That happened to me a few weeks ago! Is that what it's called?!". He is such a good God to us rotten sinners. God Bless Bro/Sis
Wouldn't the term be free will Baptists?
Free Will Baptists believe you can lose your Salvation, whereas the Traditionalist Church I attended believed in OSAS.
I currently attend a FWB Church as it is the most solid in my area.
Free-will Baptists still perform foot-washings.
So no, the term is taken and already means something else.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Nope. It was founded on Christ.
That being said, the Bible was used as a prooftext for racism and keeping slavery. I don't justify the hermeneutical jumping jacks used to oppress people in the name of Christ. But, your claim that the denomination was founded on the single issue of slavery and segregation is terribly narrow-minded.
More precisely, against the idea that Christian slave owners were less followers of Christ than non-slave owning Christians. Another issue was the belief that American Baptist Home Mission Society did not fairly appoint southern missionaries. The test was that they would not appoint a slave owner as a missionary.
It's cut and dry for us, but I think we have to realize they are not us (they had a different worldview). Whitefield even advocated slavery as it brought the gospel to otherwise pagan peoples.
SBC is a convention - not a church.
Only in people’s imagination. If people continue to support more people converting to Islam, however, this could change.
Psychopathic murderers lurk in many churches as well. I don’t blame the church unless they support the psychopaths like the SBC supported racial slavery.
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