What is a "Traditionalist" Baptist...

[church mouse guy]

And traditional is just a label you give yourself. Has nothing to do with realtiy.

Well, they used to call us moderates but now they call us Trads. I think that Latin Mass Catholics were called Trads first, but I don't know. Walter Martin, who was ordained by the SBC, called himself a mild Calvinist, which I guess was the old expression for Trad. They have to call us something because we are not Calvinists and we are not Liberals, but both of them jump all over us about nothing. I think the Calvinists know where Trads disagree with them--I spend more time worrying about the Liberals because they are just there for the covered dish dinners or something. If I believed in Calvin, I would become a Fundamentalist maybe. When I try to think of another denomination like the SBC, all I come up with are Missouri Synod Lutherans and I don't believe in infant baptism. It is the liberals who are the main worry but the Calvinists may try to drive the Trads out, too.

 

[Reformed1689]

I lead my church to only give to the local association after the 2018 convention vote

I know that is how the churches in my area are as well.

 

[Reformed1689]

What label do you give your self?
MB

Biblical Christian

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes. J.D. who was a Calvinist but then wasent a Calvinist who now is whatever is convenient at the time. J.D. whose doctrine on Charisma depends completely on who he is talking to at the time. The only thing he is consistent on is critical race theory.

I agree he seems to talk out both sides of his mouth.

 

[MB]

Biblical Christian

You're not a Baptist
MB

 

[Particular]

You are simply clueless as to the history of the SBC. Race was the single issue that caused the split that birthed the SBC. That is clear fact, not opinion. I am not a Democrat. Repeating a lie enough times does not make me accept it as truth.

With all due respect, this is not the topic of this thread. Bring your gripe about the SBC to another topic forum.

 

[Particular]

Well, they used to call us moderates but now they call us Trads. I think that Latin Mass Catholics were called Trads first, but I don't know. Walter Martin, who was ordained by the SBC, called himself a mild Calvinist, which I guess was the old expression for Trad. They have to call us something because we are not Calvinists and we are not Liberals, but both of them jump all over us about nothing. I think the Calvinists know where Trads disagree with them--I spend more time worrying about the Liberals because they are just there for the covered dish dinners or something. If I believed in Calvin, I would become a Fundamentalist maybe. When I try to think of another denomination like the SBC, all I come up with are Missouri Synod Lutherans and I don't believe in infant baptism. It is the liberals who are the main worry but the Calvinists may try to drive the Trads out, too.

Do the contradictions you hold not bother you?
It is contradictory to hold some of the tenets of Calvinism and not all. To toss out parts means the whole is built on contradiction and double-speak.
I used to hold a mixed bag and say I was a 3 point or 4 point Calvinists, but I realized I was just attempting to avoid truth so I could hold on to my perceived/wished for control over my life. Ultimately, I just let scripture speak and I accepted that all five points make up the whole with no contradiction.

 

[Reformed1689]

You're not a Baptist
MB

???? Wouldn't that be for me to decide, not you?

 

[Reynolds]

With all due respect, this is not the topic of this thread. Bring your gripe about the SBC to another topic forum.

No gripe. Simply a statement of facts that you find inconvenient. It is relevant to the topic. The SBC and is founding had nothing to do with Calvinism vs non Calvinism. In it's early days, it was a mixture of both. What set the SBC apart from other Baptists was it's view on race.

 

[MB]

???? Wouldn't that be for me to decide, not you?

You support Calvinist theology and claim you aren't a Calvinist You claim you are a biblical Christian yet what you claim isn't biblical. What a world we live huh!
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

You support Calvinist theology and claim you aren't a Calvinist You claim you are a biblical Christian yet what you claim isn't biblical. What a world we live huh!
MB

I support biblical theology. And what does Calvinism have ANYTHING to do with whether or not I am Baptist? You got shot down on your argument so you go straight to attacking Calvinism again. So I ask you again, is it not for me to decide whether or not I am Baptist? Why do YOU get to decide that? Hint: You don't.

 

[Particular]

No gripe. Simply a statement of facts that you find inconvenient. It is relevant to the topic. The SBC and is founding had nothing to do with Calvinism vs non Calvinism. In it's early days, it was a mixture of both. What set the SBC apart from other Baptists was it's view on race.

Again, start a new thread.

 

[church mouse guy]

Do the contradictions you hold not bother you?
It is contradictory to hold some of the tenets of Calvinism and not all. To toss out parts means the whole is built on contradiction and double-speak.
I used to hold a mixed bag and say I was a 3 point or 4 point Calvinists, but I realized I was just attempting to avoid truth so I could hold on to my perceived/wished for control over my life. Ultimately, I just let scripture speak and I accepted that all five points make up the whole with no contradiction.

R.C. Sproul used to teach your point more or less. It is all or nothing. But I can quit saying that I am a mild Calvinist and just say that I agree with Calvin on some issues but not all. The Liberals have me more worried than the Calvinists. You can say that I am a moderate instead of a Trad if you like. If Calvin died in 1564, then there have been other theologians since him. To tell you the truth, I tried to read Calvin over 35 years ago but I couldn't get 'er done so to speak. I became more interested in cult apologetics because Jim Jones of Jonestown came from Indiana and preached in Indianapolis and I was very upset that no one in Indianapolis spoke against him when he was here. I even met some people who knew him and they told me that Jones passed out huge parcels of groceries to poor blacks and thereby silenced his critics. Indianapolis is a cult center with nearby occult Camp Chesterfield with an international outreach plus we have UPC, Nation of Islam, Muslim Brotherhood, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses and even Gnostics. So I don't fight Calvinists.

 

[Reformed1689]

R.C. Sproul used to teach your point more or less. It is all or nothing. But I can quit saying that I am a mild Calvinist and just say that I agree with Calvin on some issues but not all. The Liberals have me more worried than the Calvinists. You can say that I am a moderate instead of a Trad if you like. If Calvin died in 1564, then there have been other theologians since him. To tell you the truth, I tried to read Calvin over 35 years ago but I couldn't get 'er done so to speak. I became more interested in cult apologetics because Jim Jones of Jonestown came from Indiana and preached in Indianapolis and I was very upset that no one in Indianapolis spoke against him when he was here. I even met some people who knew him and they told me that Jones passed out huge parcels of groceries to poor blacks and thereby silenced his critics. Indianapolis is a cult center with nearby occult Camp Chesterfield with an international outreach plus we have UPC, Nation of Islam, Muslim Brotherhood, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses and even Gnostics. So I don't fight Calvinists.

Just a thought, Christians not knowing theology is part of the reason for the rise of these other cults/religions.

 

[Particular]

R.C. Sproul used to teach your point more or less. It is all or nothing. But I can quit saying that I am a mild Calvinist and just say that I agree with Calvin on some issues but not all. The Liberals have me more worried than the Calvinists. You can say that I am a moderate instead of a Trad if you like. If Calvin died in 1564, then there have been other theologians since him. To tell you the truth, I tried to read Calvin over 35 years ago but I couldn't get 'er done so to speak. I became more interested in cult apologetics because Jim Jones of Jonestown came from Indiana and preached in Indianapolis and I was very upset that no one in Indianapolis spoke against him when he was here. I even met some people who knew him and they told me that Jones passed out huge parcels of groceries to poor blacks and thereby silenced his critics. Indianapolis is a cult center with nearby occult Camp Chesterfield with an international outreach plus we have UPC, Nation of Islam, Muslim Brotherhood, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses and even Gnostics. So I don't fight Calvinists.

You switched the conversation. I doubt anyone, other than Calvin himself, agrees with every comment that came out of his mouth/pen.
However, I am speaking of the five points of Calvinism as written in response to the Remonstrants. Those five tenets are all connected. Take one out and the house falls.

 

[Reformed1689]

You switched the conversation. I doubt anyone, other than Calvin himself, agrees with every comment that came out of his mouth/pen.
However, I am speaking of the five points of Calvinism as written in response to the Remonstrants. Those five tenets are all connected. Take one out and the house falls.

Yep no way around it.

 

[Reynolds]

Again, start a new thread.

Again, no need to. I stated a fact you can't refute so I am done. You are the only one here who seems to not know SBC history

 

[MB]

I support biblical theology. And what does Calvinism have ANYTHING to do with whether or not I am Baptist? You got shot down on your argument so you go straight to attacking Calvinism again. So I ask you again, is it not for me to decide whether or not I am Baptist? Why do YOU get to decide that? Hint: You don't.

Where did I decide for you. You must be seeing things I did no such thing.It's not my fault that you believe in Calvinist theory but you do tend to support it which makes you a Calvinist. One thing for certain you haven't shot me down even in your wildest dreams.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Where did I decide for you. You must be seeing things I did no such thing.It's not my fault that you believe in Calvinist theory but you do tend to support it which makes you a Calvinist. One thing for certain you haven't shot me down even in your wildest dreams.
MB

You said in post #65 that I am not a Baptist. Under what grounds do you get to say that?

 

[MB]

You said in post #65 that I am not a Baptist. Under what grounds do you get to say that?

You are the one who claimed to be a biblical Christian. After I asked you what label do you give your self. I naturally assumed you would say Baptist but you didn't. You support the tulip that would make you a Calvinist, but no you claim something altogether different. Which makes me wonder what you really are. What you claim biblically isn't biblical even though you falsely claim victory over every conversation.
MB