What is a "Traditionalist" Baptist...

We teach God's Will is Free Will, Free Will is not obstacle to God's will..

You are insisting God can will and do absolutely everything he wants as long as he submits to the REAL GOD---> Calvinist Philosophy.


If any Calvinist here had a lick of regeneration/sanctification of their common sense. They wouldn't be bickering about people not understanding.


Watch this testimony this is what makes sense. Fast forward to 1:34

 

Really...explain what Jesus was teaching in Jn.6:37-44 as you only follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

 

See what I mean. Augustine wrote Catholic doctrine and reformers reformed it.The fact you don't know this shows how much you really know.Calvin even wanted to be Pope.
MB

 

And again, more ignorance if you think the Catholic Church of Augustine was the same as it was at the time of the Reformation or even now. By the way, you realize that by your standards we must also disregard Paul. He also wrote Catholic doctrine.

 

Paul wrote most of the new testiment He did not write Catholic doctrine.What Paul wrote is truth and Catholic doctrine is centered around a man called Pope who claims to be In Christ Stead. IOW he is taking the place of God. So you still don't know what you are talking about.. Catholics believe everyone will be saved eventually. I never said they are the same. The reformation started over indulgences. Not Doctrine.
MB

 

The reformation started over justification by faith not indulgences

 

Not According to the History I was taught. That's not to say you are wrong. The school I went to never ever spoke about doctrine.
MB.

 

Again, your ignorance is showing....

 

Actually it did start with the indulgences and Luther writing his 95 theses. However, as it continued, the main thrust became Justification by Faith Alone. Granted, the two items go hand in hand.

 

That's why I say they go hand in hand. But the 95 Theses, particularly the translation of them into the common language is what set off the firestorm.

 

As shown by several posters, the Baptist view very early represented two opposing views, Christ died for everyone - the General Atonement View - and Christ died for the supposedly previously chosen Elect - the Particular Atonement View.

Traditional Baptists then share some Arminian doctrine, Christ died for everyone, and God chooses individuals for salvation based on faith, but believe in OSAS. They believe in "Soul Liberty" where individuals are able to understand and respond to the gospel. So by the numbers:

Traditional Baptists do not believe the Fall resulted in Total Spiritual Inability or if it did, then God overrode the affect with Prevenient grace.
Traditional Baptists believe in Conditional Election.
Traditional Baptists believe in General Atonement
Traditional Baptists believe we choose to believe rather than are compelled by irresistible grace.
Traditional Baptists believe once we are saved, we are always saved, Eternal Security.​

 

This should tell you all you need to know. Conditions mean that the man has to meet some sort of requirement. In other words, he has to do something. What does doing something equal? Works.

 

No need to debate the Traditional views, Lord knows the Calvinists disagree with many of them.

 

Oh bother.... *sigh* Belief is not a work.

A person believes something based on evidence, it may be correct or incorrect, but beliefs aren't works.

Works are doing something to gain something, be it favor, honor, status, etc.

 

Correct, man initiated faith is choosing to do something to gain favor, honor, status, etc.

 

Sure it is.
It's a work of God:

" Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." ( John 6:28-29 ).

Notice that they ask him according to man's wisdom and a desire to do something for God...
Jesus answers them according to spiritual wisdom, and replies that belief is a work of of the Lord.

Several times throughout this chapter, the Jews are asking Him questions, with Him replying not directly according to what they're looking for, but spiritually ( John 6:63 )...
He answers most of the Jews in parables, because they are "without"...outside the body of Christ:

" And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
12 that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them." ( Mark 4:11-12 ).

God hides Himself from those He does not want to reveal Himself to, and reveals Himself to those He wishes ( Matthew 11:27 ).
For example:

" And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." ( Matthew 16:16-17 ).

Belief on Jesus Christ is not based on evidence.
It's based on faith in His word ( Hebrews 11 ).
Through faith we believe...every word of God ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ).

True faith does not need physical evidence...
It rests in God telling someone something that's not visible to the senses.

Christ dying for our sins is not based on physical evidence...it's based on the belief of His words.
There are no photos, no written accounts of the crucifixion outside of the Bible.

Therefore, the only evidence is His word...
The wellspring of life.

Exactly.

Believing to gain salvation would be making it into a work.
Believing because one is saved, now that is grace.