What is a "Traditionalist" Baptist...

[Particular]

SBC is a convention - not a church.



Only in people’s imagination. If people continue to support more people converting to Islam, however, this could change.



Psychopathic murderers lurk in many churches as well. I don’t blame the church unless they support the psychopaths like the SBC supported racial slavery.

[emoji849]

 

[Particular]

...and why do they dislike the Particular Baptist position?
I'm leaving this here for Traditionalist Baptists to share how their beliefs contrast with a Particular Baptist. The Particular Baptist holds to the 5 points of Calvinism as expressed in response to the Remonstrants.
How are the two Baptist camps different and similar?

Back to the topic...

 

[rlvaughn]

...I want to go on record as stating that "Traditionalist" is a contrived term that serves no other purpose than to provide cover or legitimacy to certain Baptists that disagree with Calvinism.

I'm not certain but I think the term "Traditionalist" is used within the SBC to indicate that person is not a Calvinist.

In attempting to search this out, it seems to me that the common use of Traditionalist for a non-Calvinist soteriology (particularly in the SBC) originated with Fisher Humphreys and Paul Robertson, in their 2000 book God So Loved the World: Traditional Baptists and Calvinism. Today it serves both pejorative and polemic purposes, even if that was not the original intent of Fisher Humphreys and Paul Robertson.

 

[Reformed]

In attempting to search this out, it seems to me that the common use of Traditionalist for a non-Calvinist soteriology (particularly in the SBC) originated with Fisher Humphreys and Paul Robertson, in their 2000 book God So Loved the World: Traditional Baptists and Calvinism. Today it serves both pejorative and polemic purposes, even if that was not the original intent of Fisher Humphreys and Paul Robertson.

Which kind of supports my contention that is a contrived term.

 

[church mouse guy]

In attempting to search this out, it seems to me that the common use of Traditionalist for a non-Calvinist soteriology (particularly in the SBC) originated with Fisher Humphreys and Paul Robertson, in their 2000 book God So Loved the World: Traditional Baptists and Calvinism. Today it serves both pejorative and polemic purposes, even if that was not the original intent of Fisher Humphreys and Paul Robertson.

Thanks!

I always heard that the SBC is about 20% liberal so there are 3 groups if you ask me. I don't understand how the Calvinists can put up with the liberals. I am proud to enunciate a Trad theology that is denounced by both Calvinists and Liberals.

 

[Reynolds]

Nope. It was founded on Christ.
That being said, the Bible was used as a prooftext for racism and keeping slavery. I don't justify the hermeneutical jumping jacks used to oppress people in the name of Christ. But, your claim that the denomination was founded on the single issue of slavery and segregation is terribly narrow-minded.

What I said is historical fact.
It may be inconvenient fact for you, but it's fact. If it were not for the issue of race, there would be no SBC.

 

[Reformed1689]

Definitely wrong.

TULIP is not listed in 1925 BFAM.

TULIP wasn't a thing until 1932.

 

[Reformed1689]

Thanks!

I always heard that the SBC is about 20% liberal so there are 3 groups if you ask me. I don't understand how the Calvinists can put up with the liberals. I am proud to enunciate a Trad theology that is denounced by both Calvinists and Liberals.

And traditional is just a label you give yourself. Has nothing to do with realtiy.

 

[Particular]

What I said is historical fact.
It may be inconvenient fact for you, but it's fact. If it were not for the issue of race, there would be no SBC.

Again, the historic fact is that the SBC supported slavery in the US. The historic fact is also that the church traditionally held a reformed theology. So, it is a misnomer to say the SBC is founded on slavery. Your statement assumes no Christian virtue was there at the founding and that assumption is simply wrong.
Second, you have no idea whether the SBC would or would not exist if slavery was not a social issue at the time. That's like saying, "Had Rome not been raising money for St Peter's Basillica, Martin Luther would have remained a monk."

 

[Reynolds]

Again, the historic fact is that the SBC supported slavery in the US. The historic fact is also that the church traditionally held a reformed theology. So, it is a misnomer to say the SBC is founded on slavery. Your statement assumes no Christian virtue was there at the founding and that assumption is simply wrong.
Second, you have no idea whether the SBC would or would not exist if slavery was not a social issue at the time. That's like saying, "Had Rome not been raising money for St Peter's Basillica, Martin Luther would have remained a monk."

You are simply clueless as to the history of the SBC. Race was the single issue that caused the split that birthed the SBC. That is clear fact, not opinion. I am not a Democrat. Repeating a lie enough times does not make me accept it as truth.

 

[Revmitchell]

Thanks!

I always heard that the SBC is about 20% liberal

It is more than that now. Given that at the last two conventions the SBC voted to allow using critical race theory as a tool to view the culture. Which is another way of saying how to view scripture without actually saying it.

 

[Jerome]

I'll take the word of real Founder James B. Taylor (the first Secretary of the Foreign Mission Board of the SBC) over the representations of the disgraced Ascol/Nettles outfit.

Writing in the 1850s, Taylor reported that:

"the view now generally adopted by the Baptists [is] that the atonement is general in its nature"


His Northern Baptist contemporary Edward Hiscox concurred, testifying about mid-1800s American Baptists:

"Though diversities of personal opinion in many cases may incline to either extreme, the 'general atonement' view is for the most part adopted, while the "particular atonement" doctrine is held by not a few."

 

[Reformed1689]

It is more than that now. Given that at the last two conventions the SBC voted to allow using critical race theory as a tool to view the culture. Which is another way of saying how to view scripture without actually saying it.

Yeah the SBC is going down the proverbial toilet.

 

[Reformed1689]

I'll take the word of real Founder James B. Taylor (the first Secretary of the Foreign Mission Board of the SBC) over the representations of the disgraced Ascol/Nettles outfit.

Writing in the 1850s, Taylor reported that:

"the view now generally adopted by the Baptists [is] that the atonement is general in its nature"


His Northern Baptist contemporary Edward Hiscox concurred, testifying about mid-1800s American Baptists:

"Though diversities of personal opinion in many cases may incline to either extreme, the 'general atonement' view is for the most part adopted, while the "particular atonement" doctrine is held by not a few."

Do you believe that the SBC is historically derived from the Baptists of the 1689 London Confession?

 

[Revmitchell]

Yeah the SBC is going down the proverbial toilet.

Churches are starting to pull out.

 

[Reformed1689]

Churches are starting to pull out.

Well you knew it was only a matter of time with the rise of Greear.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well you knew it was only a matter of time with the rise of Greear.

I lead my church to only give to the local association after the 2018 convention vote

 

[Reynolds]

Well you knew it was only a matter of time with the rise of Greear.

Yes. J.D. who was a Calvinist but then wasent a Calvinist who now is whatever is convenient at the time. J.D. whose doctrine on Charisma depends completely on who he is talking to at the time. The only thing he is consistent on is critical race theory.

 

[church mouse guy]

It is a great pity what has happened to the SBC. I really like Southern Baptists. I don't know where I will go next but I think that you have to be prepared to leave any church that goes bad. One thing that they need to do in Nashville is abolish the ERLC. I think that it is smart to close their bookstores because they have to carry a lot of inventory and overhead and some of it is dubious. People used to say that the SBC had the best Sunday School material in the world. Russell Moore should resign.

 

[MB]

And traditional is just a label you give yourself. Has nothing to do with realtiy.

What label do you give your self?
MB