Featured How often do you encounter a C&A debate outside of the BB?

I occasionally run into someone that has the belief that they are unable to believe and have heard enough from "Christian" "teachers" to support their thoughts that their inability may be true. I have found that my explanation of God's design of man with free will (human volition) is quite effective in opening their eyes to their responsibility to respond to the truth of God calling them and in some cases has brought them to tears on the spot while thanking me for my explanation.This is very rewarding and I keep my ears open for people who have heard of the Doctrines of Pre-Deterministic Grace that may still be open and searching for the truth.

As for directly debating Calvinism apart from the BB and through regular conversation there have been a few times and one highlight:

A few years ago while doing my internship for Physical Therapy, my supervisor was on the computer next to me as I did my patient documentation and I noticed him working on Bible verses, I told him I was also a Christian and asked him about it.

He explained that he was preparing and has been leading a very interesting home Bible study group of 7 people and he mentioned their lesson tonight was about predestination. He seemed pretty excited about all they were learning in their studies and I quickly discovered they were learning about Calvinism.

He was surprised to find out that I understood the TULIP and even more surprised when I explained to him about the origins of Calvinism, the consequences of Limited Atonement, and I addressed the Problem of Evil when it came to Determinism and how it related to all the points of the TULIP.

He was very interested and we stayed an hour or so after work talking about this and he relayed what I had said to his group. The next day he told me they had a really good study and were taking much of Calvinism for granted but now had a lot more questions.

We talked a few more times over the next couple weeks and then he told me again that he’d been relaying what I said to his study group and they seemed to be having more questions than answers. He said they thought they were on to something but now weren’t so sure and he asked me if I would come to his Bible study and help him out and I told him next week I would.

So I went by and we had a nice in-depth discussion about Calvinism and my reasoning for opposition to it and at the end it was pretty clear that most all of them were rejecting the teachings of Determinism. In fact, apparently all but one guy who was pretty excited about learning how to proof-text the soteriological view of Determinism, much could be said about thrill of suddenly becoming a “skilled theologian” through the simplistic systematic studies of Calvinism.

Fortunately, he too came to see the contradictions to God’s true loving attributes and Omnibenevolence and rejected it a couple weeks later.

 

Very rarely. We do have a number of "refugees" from the surrounding Methodist churches, so our Sunday school class has had some lively discussions about the preservation of the saints, which our church all affirms.

(Please don't read this as a slight against our Wesleyan brothers, as I know God still has a remnant there. But the UMC up the road a piece just had some leadership declare a child transgendered, and it was the tipping point for many.)

 

The topic comes up in my church as there are many who attend that hold a "traditionalist" view, even though our pastors and leaders are reformed. We study scripture in all our Sunday School classes and when we get to a verse that is controversial, we meet it head on. We look at context and full scope of scripture as well as grammatical structure in the verse. People ask questions and refine their positions as they confront scripture. People reflect on their biases (we all have them) and talk. The Bible says that iron sharpens iron and my church upholds that view.
It is, in my opinion, foolish and negligent to avoid controversy rather than struggle with scripture that makes us uncomfortable. We can agree to disagree, but we should never avoid scripture because it might cause controversy.
When I have conversations with others who I don't know, but proclaim faith in Christ, I will probe their responses to see if they have theological literacy or if they are young in their understanding of God. If I detect an area of concern, where heresy has crept in, I will discern as to whether that person has ears to listen or is closed off by their ignorance and bias. Sometimes we will wrestle with this topic. It is sharpening.

 

I tried a bit some years ago, but gave up.

Except for a very few I've met, no one in my area of over 350,000 ( 200-300+ churches of various denominations that profess Christ, 9 just in my small town of 5,600 ) even seems to care enough about Scripture to question what's coming out of the pulpits.

Besides that, I don't have the grace that's demanded of a believer to even handle one-on-one discussions about Scripture without sticking my foot in my mouth.
I'm bad enough with just this forum.

 

Outside the internet, I have never personally met a Calvinist. Or, at least one that was out of the closet. They could have been hiding their Calvinistic beliefs.

 

Wow.

I can't remember the last time I was in a church that actually studied God's word in anything other than topical format...delivery from the pulpit as a lecture/ sermon and skipping around hitting "bullet points" was pretty much all I saw, when I was in the churches.

No church I've ever been in has done this, except the fellowship I have with a good brother each weekend.

Count yourself blessed, my friend.

Large-group interactive Bible study?
Where are you from, again?

Again, count yourself blessed.

I've never been part of such a thing inside a building with a sign out front.
In my living room or at a local coffee shop?

Sure.

 

Never.

There's none here, either.

Adam Fell.

 

I agree.

But I can't find anyone in my area that would even bother to step out of their comfort zone and confront the very words on the page.
To me, they all tend to trust their pastors for the correct teaching of it.

The desire to avoid controversy is what made me leave the Baptist churches I grew up in.

When I sat down in my former pastor's office some 13 years ago now ( a very caring and gentle 75 year old man that everyone loved, including me ) and we went through Romans 9...twice...we finished up, he looked at me, and said, " Keep reading Dave, keep reading."
I knew then that it was time to go...and that was the most godly church I'd ever been in; better than the one I'd first believed on Christ in.

Given the climate, I thought it best not to make waves rather than face being thrown out over my views of Scripture.

Stopped doing that ages ago.

Nowadays I keep my distance from professing believers, rather than risk offending them.

"Heresy" is relative in my area.
One man's truth is another man's heresy, and no matter what happens, we both tend to go our separate ways.

I genuinely wish I had even part of what you seem to be enjoying.
Perhaps someday, by God's grace, He will make me part of such a thing.

 

I do count myself blessed. God brought me there against my intuition. I was apprehensive that a Baptist Church would have sound doctrine, but the very first sermon was rich in truth and Godward. I was pleasantly shocked. I have been in attendance now for 12 years now. I have seen this church confront sin head on and serve the community with a passion to meet both siritual and physical needs. Our seniors have been mentors to our middle aged who in turn mentor those growing up. I love attending and I love the community that exists.
So, yes, I count myself blessed.

 

Hardly ever. Pretty much only when I am discussing with fellow Theologians.

 

Never, assuming I am not talking to non-seminary students over 25 years old.

 

This confuses me, so non-seminary students over 25 regularly talk about this debate with you?

 

Confuses me when I re-read it. The ones I personally run into who want to debate Calvinism and regularly bring it up are seminary students under about 25 years of age.

 

While interacting on these boards it keeps me informed as to how many go to great lengths to avoid [my opinion] of God's grace.
I find that in my former church which was 1689 church. we were in agreement on these things, so we were free to consider all the other areas of teaching and service.
We fellowshipped at an SBCchurch for about a year and a half, knowing they did not believe as we do. We found a few people who did believe the doctrines of grace...[7].
A man asked me to take over his class and it was going okay.I was presenting Jesus as central in scripture, and in our gospel presentation.as far as evangelism.
When people would occasionally come in from the other classes they would look like deer in the headlights as they were used to the life way booklets...which were better suited to children.
Now we are in a church that is predominately made up of doctrines of grace persons. At the weds night study I was able to speak freely on 2 pet. 3:9

 

The issue is 'sin', not any argument about Systems named for men.

The Pharisee and Tax Collector

Luke 18:9 "And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10" Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 "I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

 

I have not been approached by any who had this topic in mind for a long time.

That being said; where I have brought it up is discussing scripture with cult members.I use it in a positive way to urge them to examine themselves.
If I hear professed Christians give what would be a defective presentation, I agree where I can and offer correction. If they do not hear the doctrine correctly offered from someone who believes it, who are they going to here it from?