John MacArthur and Beth Moore

So you refuse to correct your error on the anti-semitism that calls the rest of your opinions into serious question?

The point is, you are obviously biased against MacArthur based on lies of anti-semitism. Then you project your opinion as fact when people who are more objective see nothing that you are seeing and go by what was actually said and not what you try to read into it.

 

The feminist agenda in America certainly started many generations ago. But in the aftermath of WW1, right at 100 years ago, President Wilson and Congress surrendered to their demands for the right to vote. All liberal agendas have been gaining ground ever since. For Beth Moore's sake, I hope she quickly realizes that she has become a pawn in their wicked agenda. The feminists are deeply vested in undermining confidence in the God ordained male headship. I see God's Sovereignty in every facet of this perfect storm. A wounded Christian woman rises up that connects perfectly with the wounded women who feel they can only trust a female leader. The bitterness that they've failed to overcome blinds them to the wiles of the demonic feminist agenda. President Trump's Access Hollywood tape emerges to foment that bitterness into activism. Social media provides the avenue for Beth Moore's huge following. Social Justice movement has succeeded in infiltrating the leadership of the SBC.
Everything timing out perfectly to create a new schism in the Evangelical world and greatly increase the nation and world's persecution of those that remain faithful to biblical inerrancy. Very likely swinging the 2020 election in favor of the baby butchers. If I'm right, this issue will not fade, it will escalate. My suspicion has long been that the falling away is a few generations in progress and ever so rapidly now snowballing. Not to mention the conservative stalwarts that have shockingly recently endorsed Paula White's new book. Perhaps a thread is in order on that topic.

 

You made no point. You presented no evidence. You simply stated unsubstantiated opinion.

 

If John MacArthur had expressed his disapproval of a particular man, this wouldn't even be a news story.

 

What's this? MacArthur's well-regarded minister grandfather and his congregation under the teaching of evangelist Christabel Pankhurst?

Nearly a century ago? Where was the conniption? the drama? the hangups?

 

I have no objection to listening to an educated and honest woman. Being honest rules her teaching nonsense about the Bible being full of women pastors and whining about Paul caving to cultural misogyny (the lie given for Paul saying women should be silent in church).

There's a difference between a female speaker and a female pastor.

 

I agree with you on this.
Public speaking does not equal pastoral leadership of the local fellowship.
Furthermore, if people have a struggle with women teaching and guiding new believers, why then are men failing to go into missions and share the gospel worldwide. For the past 100 years, men in the United States have passed missionary work on to women. I recall a female missionary pleading with the men at a Bible School to go into missions. Women have been doing the job while men make money in jobs in the US.
Men need to look themselves in the eye and repent of their failure to fulfill the great commission instead of whining about women who actually go and do something. God is expanding His Kingdom, using women. Men, either obey or stop whining.

 

The problem is scripture is pretty clear on this one. Women do not teach men (or hold authority though that is not a problem here) in the assembly of the saints. Women do proclaim the Gospel, as in scripture, and even teach outside of the assembly in private, as in scripture. But in the gathering of the Holy people women remain silent except to pray or prophesy.

This in no way detracts from your thesis that men need to step up.

 

I would state that Paul's directive on that point is in the present perfect tense. One can legitimately read the text as saying "I do not presently, at this time, allow women to speak." Why? Because women were uneducated and not well versed in scripture. This is hardly the case today. There are many women who read greek and hebrew and can teach as well as any man.
I find it odd that we men would promote an ignorant man in our church to preach or teach and ignore the brilliant scholar that God has in the church, just because she is born female.
Now, if there are qualified men, then let them lead and guide the fellowship as Christ heads the body. But, let us not discourage the gift God has willed to give to our daughters. God did not gift them for no reason.

 

That would be incorrect exogesis. It would also be adding to scripture.

 

It would be an exogesis you reject. I can live with that.

 

I don't reject it. I call it wrong. More of the trash liberal trash that needs purged.

 

She is denying the truth that God only permits male spiritual leadership, and also is advancing charismatic theology into churches.

 

Sure you reject it. You also call it wrong. I also won't lose sleep over your opinion and judgment.

 

I don't know if you know this but that is one of the core arguments for women pastors. 'God' has gifted pastor-teachers among our daughters that feel the 'call of God' and should do as they are gifted and 'called.'

Also in context the verses in 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians are appeals not to culture, but instead created order, the Genesis curses, and apostolic tradition.

 

I don't care about "feel" the call.
I just observe both men and women Christians who are highly skilled in studying and understanding God's word. God has given them the gift to teach. I highly doubt God made a mistake when He gives his gifts.
Once again, I point to Deborah as God's ordained Judge over Israel and the various prophetesses God ordained to bring a message to His people. God didn't make a mistake.
I do believe that God's direction is to have men lead the fellowship. But, it is simply prideful on the part of men to ignore the gifts God has given to women for the body, just because God chose to create them as women. When God has clearly gifted a woman to edify the church. Accept what God has willed.

 

I don't think I will change your mind. I will state you are holding to unbiblical doctrine according to a plain reading of the text.

The most salient argument for women pastors is usually their 'success leading a congregation.'

The bible often makes no sense to our modern minds. That is important, it tells us to abandon our modern notions for biblical ones that seem silly or even monstrous to the modern world. I plead with you to consider changing your mind, and I will leave it there.

 

I'll stick with what the Bible says according to how the greek language has been written. I understand you will disagree. I can live with that.

 

Ok, so your argument rests on scripture. Then let me contend for the faith with the scriptures.

1 Timothy gives its context in 1 Timothy 3:14-15. It is written to inform Timothy of how we are to act in church. If there is a book on how to act in church, It's 1 Timothy.

Also notice how 1 Timothy 2:11-12 are followed by a universal argument that bases itself in the created order and the Fall in 1 Timothy 2:13-14.

Also, notice how 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 are followed by a universal warning in 1 Corinthians 14:36-38. They are part of a general teaching on order in the churches. Let's look at Genesis and the curse found in Genesis 3:16. The woman desires to rule over her husband, but he is to rule over her. This is a command of God from the Law or the Torah.

 

Context is important. I do not think your passages make the argument you think they do.

1 Timothy 3:14-16
I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

2 Timothy 2:11-17
The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself. Remind them of these things, and charge them before Godnot to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene.

1 Corinthians 14:29-40
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order.

Genesis 3:14-21 The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.