John MacArthur and Beth Moore

[Reynolds]

Again, I don't know what Beth Moore teaches.
I do know that we have the option to be gracious while rebuking or be mean while rebuking. What MacArthur said was not done with grace. It was mean spirited and prideful.
I have made my point. There is nothing more for me to say. I agree to disagree.

MacArthur was gracious. Your point is wrong.

 

[Reformed1689]

I disagree. There is definitely pride being displayed.
Was Paul wrong when he recognized hypocrisy in Peter for not eating with Gentiles when Jews were present? No. John MacArthur and Todd Friel don't get a pass from me when they clearly are being prideful.
I recognize you may simply be unable to hear that pride coming across. We will need to agree to disagree.

And could it not be that you are assuming intent that is not there? I often come across certain ways in my tone that does not mean I am saying/meaning the way I am coming across.

 

[Reformed1689]

It was mean spirited and prideful.

How so? Be specific.

 

[Reformed1689]

I have made my point. There is nothing more for me to say. I agree to disagree.

You have given opinion, not fact. You are falsely accusing based on opinion, not fact.

 

[Particular]

You have given opinion, not fact. You are falsely accusing based on opinion, not fact.

Thanks for sharing your opinion david.

 

[Reformed1689]

Thanks for sharing your opinion david.

Actually mine wasn't opinion lol.

 

[Particular]

Actually mine wasn't opinion lol.

Sure it is. But, you are free to have that opinion and I don't begrudge you.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

John MacArthur recently said Beth Moore should "go home" as she is essentially a woman preacher.

Anyone other Baptists have thoughts on this?

My understanding from my wife is that she never claims to be a preacher and only teaches women.

MacArthur broadened his stance well beyond women. Being able to sell or influence does not qualify one to preach or teach, or to help set church policy or standards.

Beth is clearly unqualified and stands to do great damage precisely because she is able to wield influence wrongly and is doing so. However, unless her husband or pastor understands this and intervenes, she may well continue in that vanity.

 

[Reformed1689]

MacArthur broadened his stance well beyond women. Being able to sell or influence does not qualify one to preach or teach, or to help set church policy or standards.

This is a good point and goes further to prove my point that he was not telling women to go work in the house etc etc.

 

[Particular]

The issue here is not the heresy expressed by Beth Moore. She may be a heretic. The issue is the pridefulness of heart that spoke opinion about Beth Moore.
It seems that people want to dismiss the lack of love in the hearts of the speakers and hone in only on whether their discerment of Beth Moore was accurate.
I am not addressing the accuracy of their opinion about Beth Moore's theology. I am addressing the spirit of pride displayed by Todd Friel and John MacArthur.
Perhaps you feel they were humble and gracious in their discussion. If so, we disagree. I feel they were prideful and mean.

 

[Reformed1689]

I am addressing the spirit of pride displayed by Todd Friel and John MacArthur.

Which is only your opinion, not necessarily factual. They definitely were not mean. Truth hurts sometimes. Get over it.

 

[Particular]

Which is only your opinion, not necessarily factual. They definitely were not mean. Truth hurts sometimes. Get over it.

The evidence is in the audio. You can hear the pride and meanness.
Whether you accept that they are being prideful and mean is really the issue. Clearly you don't think their attitude was prideful and mean. You are welcome to hold that opinion, david.

 

[Reformed1689]

The evidence is in the audio. You can hear the pride and meanness.
Whether you accept that they are being prideful and mean is really the issue. Clearly you don't think their attitude was prideful and mean. You are welcome to hold that opinion, david.

I'm saying based on what I know of MacArthur, I guarantee it was not prideful or mean.

 

[Particular]

I'm saying based on what I know of MacArthur, I guarantee it was not prideful or mean.

I'm saying, after listening and observing for over 40 years, it was prideful and mean.
We will disagree. I'm fine with disagreeing.

 

[Reformed1689]

I'm saying, after listening and observing for over 40 years, it was prideful and mean.
We will disagree. I'm fine with disagreeing.

I'm fine with disagreeing. What I am not fine with is you stating your opinion as if it were a fact thus slandering a man of God and bearing false witness.

 

[Particular]

I'm fine with disagreeing. What I am not fine with is you stating your opinion as if it were a fact thus slandering a man of God and bearing false witness.

???
Did you and I listen to different audio clips?
I am stating what I observe. There is no slander in observing pride and mean spirit in another brother or sister in Christ. There is no slander in calling that pride and meanness out before other believers.
You don't agree with my opinion. I accept that. Your saying I am slandering Friel and MacArthur is a false claim. I reject your claim.

 

[Reformed1689]

???
Did you and I listen to different audio clips?
I am stating what I observe. There is no slander in observing pride and mean spirit in another brother or sister in Christ. There is no slander in calling that pride and meanness out before other believers.
You don't agree with my opinion. I accept that. Your saying I am slandering Friel and MacArthur is a false claim. I reject your claim.

If you state that they are prideful as fact, yes, that is a false claim and slander. You can say that you believe it sounded like, but you cannot accuse them of having that spirit.

 

[Particular]

If you state that they are prideful as fact, yes, that is a false claim and slander. You can say that you believe it sounded like, but you cannot accuse them of having that spirit.

It's not a false claim. I'm sorry that you cannot hear the pride in their voices. I cannot clear the wax from your ears.
May I ask why you place John MacArthur on a pedestal?

 

[Reformed1689]

It's not a false claim. I'm sorry that you cannot hear the pride in their voices. I cannot clear the wax from your ears.
May I ask why you place John MacArthur on a pedestal?

Who said anything about a pedestal. I just said, from what I know about MacArthur, and it is a lot, your accusation is unfounded.

 

[Particular]

Who said anything about a pedestal. I just said, from what I know about MacArthur, and it is a lot, your accusation is unfounded.

David, I have known John MacArthur since he started his radio program. I have noted pride in his heart for decades. I also note pride in my own heart. When people call it out, or I recognize it, I repent. John MacArthur has room to repent on this discussion about Beth Moore.
I was at Moody Bible Institute in the early 90s and was talking with a professor who was Jewish, yet a Christian. The conversation turned to John MacArthur and his anti-Semitism. MacArthur had been on the board of trustees at that time. The professor confirmed that, at that time, John MacArthur was anti-Semitic. MacArthur may have changed. That was nearly 30 years ago.
I also attended the same fellowship as Todd Friel, when he was just starting out in radio. At that time he had a very prideful heart and a focus on promoting himself. The audio shows that he still struggles with this pride.
These are my observations from years of experience. My observations are founded in years of watching and listening to these gentlemen.
We Christians are sinners. We sin. We say and act in sinful ways. When we do, we are graciously called to repentance and confession. I would call John MacArthur and Todd Friel to confess sin and repent on this issue. Feel free to disagree. But, please don't imagine you have a higher position on this issue. You are stating your opinion. I accept your opinion as your opinion.