Friel asked for mac to respond to his list with one word. He then said Beth Moore and mac said go home. It was all very juvenile.
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John MacArthur and Beth Moore
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Friel asked for mac to respond to his list with one word. He then said Beth Moore and mac said go home. It was all very juvenile.
Particular
Well-Known Member
It was disrespectful to Moore. She may be a false teacher (I haven't heard her or read her material), but when you are in a group of men who hold pride in their hearts and then belittle women...that is incorrect.
Second, when Paul states that he does not allow women to speak, from what I have been told, the Greek structure can be interpreted "I do not presently, at this moment, allow women to speak." There is an obvious reason for this in that women were nearly always uneducated at that time. Paul, then, leaves the possibility for women to speak and teach in the future tense.
Also, we know that women did evangelize and teach because Timothy was greatly influenced by the women in his life. Aquilla and Pricilla worked alongside Paul. Etc.
What I see in this congregation of men is a pride in their part, as well as a claim to hold power, which MacArthur denigrates when talking about "feminists."
The discussion was disrespectful. It seems that everyone should have followed Voddie Baucham's lead and slept through this session.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Again, your opinion is that it is Juvenile, but what was actually wrong with it?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
How did they belittle women? I didn't hear that at all in the audio. Also, how was it disrespectful?
We can debate the merits of your interpretation of the passage. But the idea that this was somehow men having pride to claim hold of their power? You would have a hard time getting that from the actual discussion. Again, how was the discussion actually disrespectful?
I think he should've used the opportunity to exhort her to change rather than use ridicule. Ridicule won't help anyone whereas exhortation can.
I.E there was a more productive way that would've focused more on Christ's redeeming power, and mercy towards a wayward sheep vs jokes at the expense of her confusion. I can't imagine Jesus making fun of someone in doctrinal error, but I can imagine Him exhorting someone to leave their incorrect path.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
He did. He said go home you are not qualified to preach. What do you think that is?
I think that is not meek.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Interesting, and, if I may, what does that have to do with anything? And also, how do you define meek? And also, where are we commanded to be meek?
“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." - Matthew 5:5
"To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people." Titus 3:2
"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted." Galatians 6:1
"Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." Matthew 11:29
Meek: quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive.
Synonyms - Patient, longsuffering, gentle, quiet, humble, modest, peaceable
The next question is whether telling someone to "Go Home" is patient, longsuffering, gentle, quiet, humble, modest or peaceable. I don't think it meets those definitions. That's why I would agree with the idea MacArthur had, but not with his delivery.
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That is whats wrong with it. Talking about errors is one thing making fun of and bashing is another. Saying go home is crass and juvenile.
But what did Paul know? He was just an apostles. Surely ole J.D. and Beth know more than he did.
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Blunt, but he has been blunt for 50 years. Why change?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yes, and this is not a command to be meek.
This is taken out of context. At the end of chapter two what did he say? Rebuke with all authority.
Again, you should look at the context of this verse. This is not talking about how to deal with false teaching.
Yes, thank you for the English definition. In English translations the word meek is only found once. Matthew 5:5. It does carry the sense of humbleness.
There is nothing in saying "Go Home" that is not humble. What does being patient and long-suffering mean to you? Do we just let false teaching go unchecked? No, that is absurd. There is nothing with saying go home that is not gentle, or not modest, or not peaceable. It is speaking the truth, especially since you take "Go Home" out of the greater context of the full comment.
If you don't see that the Bible tells us to be meek, I don't know what to tell ya. Have a nice day and God Bless.
God bless John MacArthur. He's a gift to this age, but getting up there. Hope there are some good voices to take his place.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I agree it tells us to be humble and gentle in certain situations, but where does it command us to be meek? Where is the verse? (Hint, it isn't there, at least not in the way you are trying to define meek.)
Yeah, these would have been equally furious with Jesus' brood of vipers comment and Peter's bruit beasts comment. We're in a hypersensitive age.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Man you spoke too soon. I was waiting on the next response before I pulled that card. lol
I know MacAruthur well. Sat in his pews many years. He's a good man, and very respectful, humble, even meek. But he doesn't tiptoe around false teachings, nor teachers.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Which is biblical.
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