John MacArthur and Beth Moore

[Hollow Man]

John MacArthur recently said Beth Moore should "go home" as she is essentially a woman preacher.

Anyone other Baptists have thoughts on this?

My understanding from my wife is that she never claims to be a preacher and only teaches women.

Well, first and foremost, she should go home because she's a heretic.

That having been said, I don't know that she's claimed any position of preaching or authority within the church, and I believe her ministry is mainly geared toward women, so I don't believe any Biblical prohibition applies to her.

But, out of respect to Dr. MacArthur, I would certainly like to hear his side before I make up my mind.

 

[Particular]

No I am sorry I do not accept that. You are bearing false witness by making them say things that were not said and from context you cannot possibly add in.

I disagree.
First, I have stated that I don't disagree with the role of men as leaders in the church.
Second, I have said that the tone of their conversation is demeaning. It is my opinion. I am not bearing false witness.
Third, the way in which they speak about Beth Moore should cause you to ask if those men are bearing false witness. I know nothing of Beth Moore. I know prideful behavior in pastors and men and what was being said was said with pride oozing from the speakers.
I like MacArthur as a preacher, but even excellent Bible teachers can harbor pride. What I heard was men (Friel and MacArthur) displaying pride. Hopefully both of their wives had a correcting talk with them when they heard the audio.

 

[Reynolds]

God has made her in his image. That alone is deserving of respect.
But, even further, there is a general denigration of women going on in the dialogue.

Being created in the image of God does not in and of itself command respect.
There is a calling out of a woman not in her Biblical role. There is no denigration of women.

 

[Particular]

I sense nothing wrong in the audio from what MacArthur said. I don't know his body language at that moment. I do consider the audience laughter out of place for a serious comment. I wonder if it was dubbed in.

There was no dubbing of the audio. It was at a pastors conference.

 

[Reynolds]

Do the "traditionalists" appreciate her message?
I don't attend a SBC church, although two of my pastor's attended Southern Theological Seminary.

The only people I personally know who like her are a few big mouthed women in our church.

 

[Particular]

Again, I think you need to look up the definition of respect. Second, no, there is not a general denigration of women from the actual dialogue, just what you fuse into it.

David, it seems you refuse to hear the tone of the conversation. We will disagree on this issue.

 

[Particular]

Being created in the image of God does not in and of itself command respect.
There is a calling out of a woman not in her Biblical role. There is no denigration of women.

One can call out another person with grace and humility. One does not need to be proud and arrogant to call out another person.

 

[Particular]

The only people I personally know who like her are a few big mouthed women in our church.

Again, I have never listened to her or read her books. I don't doubt that I might cringe at her teaching. I am not arguing for her theology.

 

[Reynolds]

One can call out another person with grace and humility. One does not need to be proud and arrogant to call out another person.

What was proud or arrogant about what John M. said?

 

[Reformed1689]

David, it seems you refuse to hear the tone of the conversation. We will disagree on this issue.

No, I hear the tone of rebuking false teaching and unbiblical practice. I reject that "Go home" means anything other than, get off of the preaching circuit as nothing else was said. Nothing that you are placing into the conversation was said. That's fine for you to hold that opinion but you can't claim it as fact. That's bearing false witness.

 

[Reformed1689]

What was proud it arrogant about what John M. said?

Nothing

 

[Reformed1689]

Third, the way in which they speak about Beth Moore should cause you to ask if those men are bearing false witness. I know nothing of Beth Moore. I know prideful behavior in pastors and men and what was being said was said with pride oozing from the speakers.

That's a pretty big charge. There was no pride, just biblical truth in the statements.

Third, the way in which they speak about Beth Moore should cause you to ask if those men are bearing false witness. I know nothing of Beth Moore.

How are they bearing false witness? Everything they said is true and verifiable.

 

[Reformed1689]

That having been said, I don't know that she's claimed any position of preaching or authority within the church, and I believe her ministry is mainly geared toward women, so I don't believe any Biblical prohibition applies to her.

Except she also preaches/teaches when men are present.

 

[Reynolds]

That's a pretty big charge. There was no pride, just biblical truth in the statements.


How are they bearing false witness? Everything they said is true and verifiable.

Yes. Their statements were accurate

 

[Particular]

What was proud or arrogant about what John M. said?

If you cannot recognize the tone of conversation, I cannot help you.

If a person says to a woman "You're beautiful" it might be perceived as a compliment, but if it is said with sarcasm or with lust those words would have a different meaning.
I ask you if you can hear the tone in Friel and MacArthur's conversation or is tone something that is hard for you to pick up?

 

[Particular]

That's a pretty big charge. There was no pride, just biblical truth in the statements.


How are they bearing false witness? Everything they said is true and verifiable.

I disagree. There is definitely pride being displayed.
Was Paul wrong when he recognized hypocrisy in Peter for not eating with Gentiles when Jews were present? No. John MacArthur and Todd Friel don't get a pass from me when they clearly are being prideful.
I recognize you may simply be unable to hear that pride coming across. We will need to agree to disagree.

 

[Jerome]

Beth Moore bringing the Word alongside John Piper et al.:

 

[Reynolds]

I agree that was not done in a God honoring way

What about it was not God honoring?

 

[Reynolds]

If you cannot recognize the tone of conversation, I cannot help you.

If a person says to a woman "You're beautiful" it might be perceived as a compliment, but if it is said with sarcasm or with lust those words would have a different meaning.
I ask you if you can hear the tone in Friel and MacArthur's conversation or is tone something that is hard for you to pick up?

What tone should they use in describing a teacher/preacher who defies the clear commands of scripture?

 

[Particular]

What tone should they use in describing a teacher/preacher who defies the clear commands of scripture?

Again, I don't know what Beth Moore teaches.
I do know that we have the option to be gracious while rebuking or be mean while rebuking. What MacArthur said was not done with grace. It was mean spirited and prideful.
I have made my point. There is nothing more for me to say. I agree to disagree.