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John 3:5 does not require (or even speak about) Baptism for Salvation (The Other Denom, Edition)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Reformed1689, Nov 3, 2019.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    This is a deceptive post. I brought him up because it was said that all ECF held a unanimous viewpoint of the passage which was proven false.
     
    #101 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree context determines meaning? That is one point of a sound hermeneutic and to say this is talking about anything other than physical birth ignores context.
     
    #102 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    How? That's nonsense. Jesus is acknowledging that is the way he was ALREADY BORN and he needs another birth, by spirit.
    Context would argue otherwise.
     
    #103 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Nicodemus' question does not negate the fact that Jesus was talking about both physical birth and spiritual birth in order to address Nicodemus' incorrect theology.
     
    #104 Revmitchell, Nov 5, 2019
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  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    We aren't talking about the doctrine of Regeneraational Baptism. We are talking about the false claim you made that all ECF said John 3:5 was about water baptism. I gave you TWO DIRECT QUOTES from two different ECF that state otherwise.
     
    #105 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    This is where you fail. WE ARE starting with Nicodemus question. He thinks he must have a physical rebirth. Jesus is telling him, you already had a physical birth (water) but your rebirth must be of the spirit.

    If the water was the second birth, the rebirth, then that would make the birth of the spirit a third birth. So according to your point, it necessitates that we are not born again once, but twice.
     
    #106 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  7. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    I am starting to think Protestants view the Scriptures as the most complete set of coincidences ever recorded.
     
    #107 Walpole, Nov 5, 2019
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Because that is what you want to think. Its what is in your heart.
     
    #108 Revmitchell, Nov 5, 2019
  9. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    And all that means is that more than one person here is WRONG and doesn’t understand implicit Scriptural teaching.

    Eisegesis is what YOU guys are doing – injecting YOUR Protestant doctrines on well-established Biblical and Christian norms.
     
    #109 MarysSon, Nov 5, 2019
  10. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Agreed.
     
    #110 MarysSon, Nov 5, 2019
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Of course you do. You also decided to show up on a baptist web site and bash baptists. Does nothing for your credibility
     
    #111 Revmitchell, Nov 5, 2019
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  12. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    LOL, no. We look at the text and see what it says, not what we want it to say.
    Since baptism is never mentioned or considered by either Nicodemus or by Jesus, we do not jump to baptism as the meaning of water in verse 5.
    Your approach is similar to someone reading the word "oxygen" and immediately declaring the author is speaking about methane.
     
    #112 Particular, Nov 5, 2019
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  13. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    I’m not here to “bash” Baptists or anybody else.

    I’m here to expose lies about the Catholic Church and defend the truth of the Catholic position.
    That’s all.
     
    #113 MarysSon, Nov 5, 2019
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    This post makes me think you don't even know what Eisegesis is....
     
    #114 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    And yet you do
     
    #115 Revmitchell, Nov 5, 2019
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Name one lie that has been given about the Catholic Church... Also, you can't defend the truth of something that isn't true to begin with.
     
    #116 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  17. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Sure I do.

    It’s when you inject your own agenda into what Scripture is teaching instead of gleaning what Scripture is clearly teaching, whether it’s explicit or implicit.

    This is precisely what Protestantism at large has done with John 3:5 because unless you DO – you must agree with the Catholic position, which is unthinkable . . .
     
    #117 MarysSon, Nov 5, 2019
  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No. Not true. I knew exactly what John 3:5 was talking about before I had ever heard the Catholic position. There is nothing in that passage that signals water baptism in any way shape or form unless you come at it looking for that with a preconceived idea that it must be talking about that because Baptism is what regenerates.

    But, I ask again, how many times do you have to be born again? Once or twice?
     
    #118 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  19. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Verse 6 simply emphasizes Christ’s point in verse 5 – that He is NOT talking about physical birth. That He is talking about spiritual REBIRTH.

    Nicodemus asked Him to explain how a man could be “reborn” and even stated that a man could not re-enter his mother’s womb. Jesus answered him by telling him that he needed to be reborn of water and SPIRIT – not flesh.

    This is done in BAPTISM, as Scripture tells us again and again and again (Ezek. 36:25-27, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Col. 2:9-12, Pet. 3:21).
     
    #119 MarysSon, Nov 5, 2019
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Please exegete the passage to show how this is talking about spiritual birth with water. Show us the work. Don't just regurgitate Catholic dogma. Show us how you arrive at that conclusion.

    So is this one or two rebirths? Because this is talking about two different types of births. You have to be born of water. But you also have to be REBORN of spirit. Water is flesh which Jesus explains in verse 6. You need to show exegetical work to prove your point and that cannot include Catholic commentary or dogma.

    And I have a question for you. Was the thief on the cross beside Christ saved?
     
    #120 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
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