Featured Am I Now IFB?

I think I'm still not clear on what your position is, then. When Yushua1 said "Jesus held to eternal security of the truly saved, so we must also!" you replied that you disagreed. I took that as meaning the you do not believe the truly saved are eternally secure.

But you also seem to be saying one can be apostate, but still saved.

I would disagree with both of these positions.

 

A believer can repent of sin, sure. I would not call that an apostate, though. What passages did yo have in mind regarding this?

 

There are two types that Steve seems to have blended into one word, apostate.

Paul says in first Corinthians and I have witnessed as happening the cutting short of one’s life because of sinful living.

The wages of sin is death - physical death.

God’s gift is life. God is not a giver and remover of life.

So either one who sins and even denounces the faith will be removed from this life, or if not removed was never given life by God.


The principles of freedom of will, pray a prayer, “my” faith gains salvation thinking resolves to that which insecure and based solely upon personal strength and “being right with God.”

Because such starts in the flesh, is kept by the flesh, then when the flesh fails it can be lost.

But the Scriptures teach both perseverance and preservation of the saints.

That is, what God has begun in a person will be completed, because “He is faithful even in our unfaithfulness.”

Personally, I don’t like OSAS as many IFB and SBC teach. It is shallow and leads to error.

What does not nor cannot stand is that one looses what God gifted.

There is no place in Scripture for such to be found.

Those healed by Christ stayed healed.
Those redeemed by Christ stay redeemed. John clearly teaches that the sheep hear, the sheep are lead, the sheep are secure, the sheep are owned.

Paul teaches, sin binds, blinds, enslaves.
Paul teaches, purchased from slavery, freed from slavery, adopted as sons.

How then is a son not an heir?

Never in Scripture does God “disown” what He has claimed as His.


Foolish people teach one can loose that which God implanted.

 

Me personally, I understand to be saved that one has eternal life and upon death will be going to Heaven.

If one does not go to Heaven upon death, one was not saved.

Else to me, to say one is saved and then lost makes no good sense.

Otherwise to be saved is never really to be saved by God.

The whole reason I accpted Christ as Savior was for God to actually save me so I could know for sure. No one can know for sure if one can loose salvation!

 

They key is, eternal life starts at the moment of faith.

John 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. ​

It can't be eternal if it can be lost.

 

We are going to say, ' Administration', right?

The Old Testament Administration of The One Eternal Covenant of Grace and The New Testament Administration of The One Eternal Covenant of Grace.

Right?

 

It sounds like you're conflating sin with apostasy, which is even more concerning because then you're suggesting a works based system, where the believer must continually perform to keep his eternal life status.

 

Are you suggestion they lost their salvation? Seems you're conflating sin and apostasy. Am I correct in my assessment?

 

It is, but evangelicals would reject the idea that we are saved by faith and kept by works. Do you also reject that idea?

No because there is no such thing as an "unrepentant homosexual Christian."

 

No, I don’t have that thinking at all.

Why would God remove those who are not His?

No, they lied to the Holy Spirit and the church. To demonstrate such was not to be taken as a minor but a huge issue, God took them from enjoyment of what they conspired. Remember the parable of the man who said he was wealthy having his barns full, and God took him that very night? The Lord ask, “then whose shall those things be?”

No, I hold them as saved, but greedy and coveted what they promised to deliver.

Be careful with OT passages, because the Holy Spirit was taken from some as Saul, and David prayed the Spirit remain.

However, the NT presents that we are “new creation” and as such, God doesn’t waste what he creates.

I will direct you to Romans 8 for the answer to one who dies with unconfessed sin.

1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life has set youb free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit....

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can bei against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
​

Now if you can find an exclusion clause of one who is redeemed being un-redeemed then your a better reader then me.

God both preserves the saints and causes them to persevere no matter.

Do not allow the enemy to implant some thought of despair and doubt concerning this matter.

God gives life, eternal life to believers, and such are not condemned. That is the teaching from John 3.

​

John also writes that should we sin (and all sin or we make God a liar) that there is that advocacy. For we are His adopted child.

He doesn’t un-adopt the believer.

Paul remarked, “Do we then sin that Grace abound?” No!

That thinking God will forbid, and as the Corinthians found caused some to be taken from them.

 

Well to be more precise, those whose names are not found in the book of life, Revelation 20:15. Now those who escape keep their name in the book, John 5:24: Romans 6:23; 1 John 5:4; Revelation 3:5; Revelation 2:11; Revelation 21:7.

 

I agree, and Paul's warnings about communion come to mind, where some are sick and even dead due to taking the elements in an unworthy manner.

These are not issues of apostasy, but rather egregious sins that any Christian can commit. God can bring home his children at any time if He choses. This is not what John was talking about when he said,

1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.​

 

Now you're sounding more like a traditional Baptist. We don't lose our salvation by living like the devil, we prove we were never saved.

IOWs you've met many tares who profess to be wheats.

 

If you'd be wiling, please offer your definition of salvation. Also, per your definition, can one be saved and not have eternal life?