Jesus Christ was Born of Woman . . . fact or fiction?

No.
I am saying God the Son exchanged his glory and became human flesh. The second Adam. The promised one from Genesis 3 of whom Moses and the Prophets declared would one day come.
You are trying to limit God's immutability and force Mary's dna upon God in order for God to be human. God doesn't need anyone's corrupt dna in order to be human.
Mary is not a new Eve. Mary is a corrupt, young sinner like all women and men. She was graciously chosen, despite her corruption, to be the host where God would dwell for 9 months and then raise the God-man until he reached maturity. Mary made many mistakes. She lost Jesus. She got mad at Jesus when she lost him. She pushed he will upon Jesus to fix a problem at a wedding. Mary was flawed, like all humanity.
Your worship of Mary is idolatry.

 

Genesis 3:22 teaches the knowledge of good and evil is God's divine knowledge. Genesis 3 teaches man obtaining it is the cause of man's sinful nature. All the false teachings about mankind being sinful fail in understanding this fundamental truth. Unless Jesus is a genetic descent from Adam through His mother according to the Biblical texts is to make God a fraud.

 

Scripture teaches that man disobeyed God. That is the source of our corruption.
It was not man obtaining the knowledge of good and evil. I was man rebelling against God's command.
Hast God not said...?
Adam rebelled. Adam disobeyed.
Now, skip to the new Adam and see his temptation in Luke 4. The same test was given.
Hast God not said...?
Jesus obeyed. He did not sin. This is precisely why the Second Adam is our Redeemer. He was without sin, yet the sin of the Elect was laid upon him and God's wrath toward sin was brought with full force upon him. By his stripes we were healed.
That is Amazing Grace. May we be humbled by what God has done on our behalf.

 

Water baptism removes sin? Scripture says the opposite.

1Pet. 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,​

The indwelling Spirit seals us for salvation, not the symbol.

 

But even the verse you quote is post fall.

 

Jesus is God as far as his person. And God cannot sin. He had a fully human nature and a fully divine nature but his person is God.

 

Yes...

---> "Then Peter said unto them, 'Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.'" - Acts 2:38

Verse please.

The verse you quoted says baptism saves and that it does not remove dirt from the body. No one is arguing baptism is for washing dirt from one's body. (That is what baths are for.)

 

Wow, you guys are in some serious denial. The verse says exactly the opposite of what you're saying. So I'll keep repeating it.

1Pet. 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,​

Peter completely destroys your case in one verse.

• He reveals water baptism is a symbol of the true baptism and is not the actual baptism itself.
• He reveals that the water which removes the dirt is not the baptism that saves.
• He reveals that the true baptism is a pledge made possible by the resurrection of Christ.

Matthew 3:11 confirms this as well. Christ will come and fulfill the symbol of water baptism John was using baptizing us in the Spirit.

Sorry, guys your water is just a symbol, and if you're placing your trust in it, you're in a very dangerous place. You're merely removing some external dirt.

 

It's as if you are not even reading the passage you have pasted, which refutes your entire argument.

"...to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Peter 3:20-21)

- The eight (Noah and his family) were saved through water
- This water prefigured the waters of baptism
- This baptism now saves you
- Because the waters of baptism are salvific, it is not for the removal of dirt from one's body


Baptism, by definition, necessitates water. Yet water by itself is not a baptism and it exercises no power on its own; for it is but a material sign of what is communicated spiritually. It is only with the Holy Spirit does it become baptism. For baptism requires water and the Holy Spirit. (cf. John 3:5)

 

I would say the same for you. It's as if you've shut your brain off and are allowing some other authority to tell you what is means.

Wow, this is some serious hermeneutical backflipping. The waters of the flood (do you even believe in the historical worldwide flood?) are symbolic of the waters of baptism. That makes perfect sense unless you somehow believe that Noah and family were saved by the flood??? Surely you don't believe this? That the Flood waters saved Noah?

Then by extension you also should not believe that the symbolical waters of baptism save the sinner, but rather symbolize the death burial and resurrection that saved them.

In case you're still confused, God saved Noah from physical death through the Ark, and God saves us from spiritual death by grace through faith in Christ.

Not the baptism that saves. John the Baptist said Christ would come later and baptize with the Spirit. The thief on the Cross was never baptized by water, but we was baptized by the Spirit and saved.

You're confusing the symbol with the reality behind it.

 

Nice ad hominem.

Water in salvation history brings both death and life. It represents the destruction of the old (former ways) and recreates something new. The waters of the deluge washed the sinners away, and through it something new was created. Thus St. Peter tells us Noah and the other seven were saved through water.

St. Paul tells us Moses and the Israelites were baptized "...in the cloud and in the sea" (cf. 1 Cor 10:2). As with the deluge, water brought forth death and life. What the Jews call the miracle of the parting of the Sea, St. Paul calls a baptism. This is a type of Christian baptism, with the cloud representing the spirit and the sea representing the living waters of baptism.

In Christianity, matter matters. Hence the waters of baptism are not symbolic, but actual living water...

---> "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt. 28:19)

In the above instruction on administering baptism, when is this formula ever recited sans water?

I am not confused, for St. Peter is clear God saved Noah and the seven members of his family through water, and through the waters of baptism we too are saved. (cf. 1 Peter 3:20-21)

St. Peter is clear: "...baptism that now saves you."

Baptism is efficacious because of Christ.

If that is the case, then baptism would be the first time in all of Scripture where the figure / type of something surpassed the reality of it.

 

How so?

"Water in salvation history..."?

Yes, saved through as in brought safely through. Not saved as in by way of. This word is often translated escaped as in the passage below.

Acts 28:4 When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, “This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, the goddess Justice has not allowed him to live.”​

But surely you don't believe Noah was saved by the flood? You certainly believe he was saved by God through the Ark from the flood.

And surely believe the Ark to be a symbol of Christ?

Um, no. You've been told this, taught this, indoctrinated into this, but no, that's not what Scripture says.

Indeed. And we do, as a symbol of regeneration (the true baptism).

You are extremely confused. Peter himself told you "Not the removal of dirt from the flesh" but you refuse to believe him. You trust other authorities to interpret the interpreter who interpreted this for you directly.

"not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God."

I'll just keep reminding you of this in hopes you'll stop trusting in outward symbols.

 

Jesus is God, he cannot sin. It matters not how we wrestle with his birth. God cannot sin.

 

Oh, I see. The problem is, Scripture talks about the first and last Adam, but never about the first and last Eve. In fact, Scripture never links the fall to Eve, but rather Adam who was not deceived.

1Tim. 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. ​

When you look at the Fall account, you don't see the effect of the fall take place until after Adam eats, and Christ came to replace Adam and become the last Adam.

Mary could not be in this level. She was a sinner who needed a savior. She said so herself,

Luke 1:46 And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,​

You don't rejoice in a savior unless you need saving. You don't need saving unless you're a sinner. Mary would be very anguished by the things you're saying about her.

 

Re-read what you wrote.

Yes, throughout salvation history, the use of water is a common theme.

​

"...to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through (διά) water..." (1 Peter 3:20, NIV, which you quoted)

διά = through / by / by means of

Source

Noah was physically saved by passing through the waters of the deluge. Here again are the words of St. Peter...

"...to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Peter 3:20-21, NIV, which you quoted)

Notice, the Apostle does not say, "...were saved through the ark", but rather they were saved "through water."

I believe the Ark symbolizes the Church of Christ.

Again, your argument would make baptism the first example in all of Scripture where the type / foreshadowing of something surpassed the reality of it.

Was the deluge actual water or just symbolic water?

Believing baptism is just a symbol is something you've been told, taught and indoctrinated into, but not what the Scripture says.

In Christianity, matter...matters.

Exactly! Water is the primary means by which we cleanse ourselves. However, as St. Peter says, in the case of baptism, water is not used to cleanse our bodies, but our souls unto salvation.

"...baptism that now saves you..."

 

Actually the word is diasozo - to bring safely through; to convey in safety, to reach a place or state of safety. (Mounce)

God brought them safely through the water. This is really easy stuff.

Peter indeed says they were saved by the Ark.

1Pet. 3:20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,​

Very strange why you won't accept this. Peter would want you to accept this.

The type is the Ark, the reality is Christ. You accept neither.

The Flood was a real global historical event. Do believe this?

Indeed, by Peter the interpreter, who needs no interpreter. You've been taught by someone else.

Yes, the baptism of Christ by the Spirit which the water symbolizes. You're relying on your works with elements you've gathered. I'm relying on Christ.

 

Jesus did not sin because the knowledge of good and evil was His knowledge to begin with (Genesis 3:22; Mark 10:18).

Now to the topic of this thread, Genesis 3:15, ". . . And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. . . ." Galatains 4:4, ". . . when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, . . ." And 1 John 3;5, ". . . ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. . . ." 1 John 3:8, ". . . For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. . . ."