The effect of Free Will on Scripture.

If it is of faith that it might be by Grace Then predetermination is bunk It is not by predetermination. The man must believe.first. Determinism claims that man is saved so that he can believe isn't true at all.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Everyone that receives must ask. This proves there is no predeterminism.
MB

 

Now how many times has this discussion of free-will been brought up?... A lot... And even though you think you can, brethren you can't change your own heart!... Brother Glen

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

The reason they seek is God has been doing a work in them, because no one seeks for God unless He helps them to know Him.
Jesus teaches none can know Him or the Father unless He wills that they know Him.
So then it is not your choice or your will to know God and Christ is it. The only reason you have any faith in Him is He willed it to be so.

Luke 10, Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

Since faith is a gift, then of course your faith is predetermined. You can not deny predestination as it is taught in scripture.

 

James 1:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Salvation is of the Lord.

 

AMEN!!!... Brother Dave

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it..

The fact that the Jews rejected Christ shows free will to reject Christ. The fact that the Salvation of God was sent to the Gentile proves they do hear it.
These two verses proves that everyone can ask and receive.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
I believe they are self explanatory and do not need any other coment.
When you put Christ and Paul at odds Christ always wins..

As a matter of fact all men are dealt a measure of faith to begin with. It's a beginning of what can take a person from lost to saved. Imagine that the same faith increased by the word of God Can save. God's word is the only means of Salvation that we have and as soon as one hears it or reads it the Spirit is there to convince and convict.

I have to disagree I was at the place of coming to Christ several times and rejected the Idea and the draw. It wasn't until I was completely convinced and convicted of my sins. Oh I felt the conviction everytime I was in church I was also aware of being almost convinced and still I rejected Him. It took a certain sermon and a presentation of what I didn't know. I was a hypocrite and knowing this there had to be a change of my attitude and rebellion It made me realize I needed Jesus. I asked the Lord to save me and He did.

I do not find predetermination in scripture. I could never tell someone bad news such as predetermination in that God predetermined those who would be saved leaving all others out of it. That is not an accurate picture of my Savior. It's not just a certain few who can be saved. My Lord died so the whole world could be saved. Now this is good news.
MB

 

I'm sorry to say you are wrong in how you see it.
MB

 

This your imagination God loves the whole world He created it to LOVE"Jn. 3:16. God so Loves the world" Are you saying God loves and hates at the same time ?
One of our Lords Commandments was Love thy neighbor as thy self. Does God sin? No so your interpretation must be wrong then. Our lord also said to love our enemies. But you claim God sins and hates His enemies..
MB

 

Note neither verse states Salvation was given against the man's own will and verse 18 states the words might be a kind of first fruits

Eph_1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. KJV
MB

 

Hardness came upon the jews so that the gospel could go to the gentiles. That was God's decision, the unbelieving jews just could not believe in Christ as God had not ordained that for them. And why are you so resistant to this?

John 12
37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:
“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
41 These things Isaiah said [f]when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

 

Romans 11, regarding the unbelieving jews, and why they did not believe in Christ is because God had given them a spirit of stupor and blind eyes that can not see, and deaf ears that can not hear, down to the present day it is so.. However the ELECT did believe, while the rest were blinded by God. This is the way it is because salvation is by grace alone, the election by grace, otherwise it is a work, and God wont allow that, no sir..

4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

 

I am not resistant to the paragraph above.What makes you think I am?

The verses 39 above is addressed to the Jews. Are you a Jew? How can what is meant for the Jew have any effect on me. When God has granted repentance to the Gentiles.
Act_11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
MB

 

You don't know what you are talking about
There is not one Gentile ever called elect in scripture. You cannot show even one elect gentile.What applies to the elect is priesthood and a People unto God of which only Jews are elect.

Where does it say this applies to Gentiles? Answer; It doesn't
MB

 

Your not even logically following your own words.
You said they exercised their free will to reject Christ.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it..
"The fact that the Jews rejected Christ shows free will to reject Christ."

Except scriptures say God blinded the jews so they could not believe. So really who had their wills free? The jews did not have a free will, God had modified them, so they had no free will to believe, can you even say they had the free will to not believe. Seeing God had done these things, they had no genuine free will. Everyone reacts in a certain way to the environment they are placed into. God made certain by His own actions that they did not believe in Christ. It is worthless trying to discuss with you when your being this way. God's plan is to send the gospel to the gentiles, by hardening the jews (but not all were hardened as some did believe in Christ). And then after the full number of the gentiles have been saved, after the times of the gentiles is completed, (see there is that predestination thing again), God will it says, save all of Israel.

Romans 11
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

 

What do you mean by ALL Israel?... You mean ALL spiritual Israel, right?... Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page here... Brother Glen

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

The scripture says 'all Israel will be saved'. Who is of the Israel of God is the answer. Called by Him to be saved. Not every jew is of Israel. Read Romans 9:6-8

 

I know that!... Just checking to see if we were on the same page... New blood!... Why do they always get so testy?... Welcome to the BB... Brother Glen