The effect of Free Will on Scripture.

[Van]

Paul stated only babes in Christ receive it as that!

Yet another post of complete and utter falsehood. Folks, ask yourselves why Paul spoke as to men of flesh if men of flesh could not receive the spiritual milk he spoke? Answer, the Y1 view is nonsense. A smoke screen. Stone walling to hide the obvious truth.

Just read 1 Corinthians 3:1. (NASB)
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another post of complete and utter falsehood. Folks, ask yourselves why Paul spoke as to men of flesh if men of flesh could not receive the spiritual milk he spoke? Answer, the Y1 view is nonsense. A smoke screen. Stone walling to hide the obvious truth.

Just read 1 Corinthians 3:1. (NASB)
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

Paul was staing there that they were babes in Christ, thinking and acting as if still unsaved, but NOT that the lost were able to receive things of God!

 

[Van]

Paul was staing there that they were babes in Christ, thinking and acting as if still unsaved, but NOT that the lost were able to receive things of God!

Not what the verse says! Please stop rewriting the text to say "as to people with their minds set on the flesh."

Try addressing the actual text, "as to men of flesh."

 

[Yeshua1]

Not what the verse says! Please stop rewriting the text to say "as to people with their minds set on the flesh."

Try addressing the actual text, "as to men of flesh."

The Babes were acting as if they were still men of flesh, not that they still were!

 

[Van]

The Babes were acting as if they were still men of flesh, not that they still were!

Utter nonsense. Paul spoke as to men of flesh, not people in the flesh.

Once again, the truth is obvious, but the rewriter continues to rewrite the text.

 

[Yeshua1]

Utter nonsense. Paul spoke as to men of flesh, not people in the flesh.

Once again, the truth is obvious, but the rewriter continues to rewrite the text.

You continue to misunderstand what Paul meant!

 

[Van]

You continue to misunderstand what Paul meant!

More change the subject deflection, addressing the poster and not the position.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 3:1 spoke to new Christs as to men (people) of the flesh. He used "milk" referring to the fundamentals of the gospel. Thus natural people, unregenerate people, lost and unsaved people can understand spiritual milk. This truth is obvious.

To claim Paul meant to say as to new Christians in the flesh is to rewrite the text.

There is not support anywhere in scripture for the bogus doctrine that the lost cannot understand all the things of the Spirit. That bogus interpretation (1 Cor. 2:14) of the meaning of "the things" to mean "all the things" does not mesh with the context of 1 Corinthians 3:1.

Total Spiritual Inability is bogus doctrine, Limited Spiritual Ability is biblically based doctrine.

 

[Yeshua1]

More change the subject deflection, addressing the poster and not the position.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 3:1 spoke to new Christs as to men (people) of the flesh. He used "milk" referring to the fundamentals of the gospel. Thus natural people, unregenerate people, lost and unsaved people can understand spiritual milk. This truth is obvious.

To claim Paul meant to say as to new Christians in the flesh is to rewrite the text.

There is not support anywhere in scripture for the bogus doctrine that the lost cannot understand all the things of the Spirit. That bogus interpretation (1 Cor. 2:14) of the meaning of "the things" to mean "all the things" does not mesh with the context of 1 Corinthians 3:1.

Total Spiritual Inability is bogus doctrine, Limited Spiritual Ability is biblically based doctrine.

Paul had only 3 groups in mind of people, the lost, babes, and mature in Christ. You are really confused on who Paul was addressing here!

 

[Van]

Paul had only 3 groups in mind of people, the lost, babes, and mature in Christ. You are really confused on who Paul was addressing here!

No matter how many times you say I am confused, it does not change the text.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 3:1 spoke to new Christs as to men (people) of the flesh. He used "milk" referring to the fundamentals of the gospel. Thus natural people, unregenerate people, lost and unsaved people can understand spiritual milk. This truth is obvious.

To claim Paul meant to say as to new Christians in the flesh is to rewrite the text.

There is not support anywhere in scripture for the bogus doctrine that the lost cannot understand all the things of the Spirit. That bogus interpretation (1 Cor. 2:14) of the meaning of "the things" to mean "all the things" does not mesh with the context of 1 Corinthians 3:1.

Total Spiritual Inability is bogus doctrine, Limited Spiritual Ability is biblically based doctrine.

 

[Yeshua1]

No matter how many times you say I am confused, it does not change the text.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 3:1 spoke to new Christs as to men (people) of the flesh. He used "milk" referring to the fundamentals of the gospel. Thus natural people, unregenerate people, lost and unsaved people can understand spiritual milk. This truth is obvious.

To claim Paul meant to say as to new Christians in the flesh is to rewrite the text.

There is not support anywhere in scripture for the bogus doctrine that the lost cannot understand all the things of the Spirit. That bogus interpretation (1 Cor. 2:14) of the meaning of "the things" to mean "all the things" does not mesh with the context of 1 Corinthians 3:1.

Total Spiritual Inability is bogus doctrine, Limited Spiritual Ability is biblically based doctrine.

Unless and until the Holy Spiriit allows one to read and to hear the Gospel, they remain deaf, dumb, and blind in their sin state!

 

[Van]

Unless and until the Holy Spirit allows one to read and to hear the Gospel, they remain deaf, dumb, and blind in their sin state!

Yet another utterly bogus claim, ignoring 1 Cor. 3:1 Repeating a falsehood till the cows come home will not make it true.

Your doctrines have once again been shown to be bogus, false and nonsense.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another utterly bogus claim, ignoring 1 Cor. 3:1 Repeating a falsehood till the cows come home will not make it true.

Your doctrines have once again been shown to be bogus, false and nonsense.

Accdept my understanding on this issue lines up with scripture, and yours does not!

 

[Van]

Accdept my understanding on this issue lines up with scripture, and yours does not!

More utter nonsense, more stone walling. Paul spoke to new Christians as to men of flesh, natural men, unregenerate, lost people. You can deny this till the cows come home. Your view simply rewrites scripture. 1 Corinthians 3:1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

The will, free or otherwise, of a child of God is to be subject to the will of God.

[Luk 22:42 KJV] Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
[Mat 6:10 KJV] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

End of discussion.

 

[Scott Downey]

If your a babe in Christ, then your still in Christ and still spiritually minded or your not one of His people.
If your carnally minded and not spiritually minded, your not in Christ.
You must be born again, flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit. Those who are in the flesh and not in the Spirit of God are at enmity with God. All saved believers are born again and the Spirit of God indwells them.

Romans 8, when it speaks about those who walk according the Spirit, this means saved people only. Only they have no condemnation. Condemnation is a legal term, and fit only for the unsaved who come under judgement with a destiny of damnation and hell. In v7, since the carnal mind is at enmity with God and not subject to God's law, then you can know that description is about the unsaved who o not belong to Christ.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Scott Downey]

Anytime scripture is talking about the flesh versus the Spirit, be careful. Paul speaking as if to men of flesh, does not mean they are not saved, but that they are not conforming their lives properly, they are living contrary to their true nature of the new man that God created in them, they are living the life of the old man, they are living their life as a lie. If anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, all things have become new and all things are of God.
We are not regard anyone according to the flesh, but understand Paul here is writing about the church of those who will be saved, of those who are saved.

2 Corinthians 5
13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [d]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

 

[agedman]

Anytime scripture is talking about the flesh versus the Spirit, be careful. Paul speaking as if to men of flesh, does not mean they are not saved, but that they are not conforming their lives properly, they are living contrary to their true nature of the new man that God created in them, they are living the life of the old man, they are living their life as a lie. If anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, all things have become new and all things are of God.

This is the point that @Van cannot accept. His scheme does not allow him to admit this point because then he would have to come to terms with other inappropriate proof-texting in his presentation.

I don’t know that we have record of Paul ever writing to the unsaved.

The people were were living “as” not that they were. @Van stops with the world “flesh” but Paul does not. That is the major problem with proof-texting.

1But I, brothers,a could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?

... 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.​

@Van is wrong, and has been wrong for a long time.

I have often urged him to recant, yet he remained obstinate, but I do hope he will awaken to the error(s) and repentance will pour.

 

[Scott Downey]

This is the point that @Van cannot accept. His scheme does not allow him to admit this point because then he would have to come to terms with other inappropriate proof-texting in his presentation.

I don’t know that we have record of Paul ever writing to the unsaved.

The people were were living “as” not that they were. @Van stops with the world “flesh” but Paul does not. That is the major problem with proof-texting.

1But I, brothers,a could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?

... 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.​

@Van is wrong, and has been wrong for a long time.

I have often urged him to recant, yet he remained obstinate, but I do hope he will awaken to the error(s) and repentance will pour.

Yes, If Paul says we are to no longer to regard Christians as according to the flesh anymore, then yes, when Paul is speaking to these babes in Christ, we cant set a false double standard saying one thing about the flesh in one part, and another in another part of scripture, Paul is certainly not going to contradict himself, neither is the scripture going to do such..

 

[Van]

Anytime scripture is talking about the flesh versus the Spirit, be careful. Paul speaking as if to men of flesh, does not mean they are not saved, but that they are not conforming their lives properly, they are living contrary to their true nature of the new man that God created in them, they are living the life of the old man, they are living their life as a lie. If anyone is in Christ they are a new creation, all things have become new and all things are of God.
We are not regard anyone according to the flesh, but understand Paul here is writing about the church of those who will be saved, of those who are saved.

2 Corinthians 5
13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [d]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Hi Scott, I think "men of flesh" are not saved. You seem to think "men of flesh" means the same things as "men in the flesh" with their minds set on fleshly desires. Not how it reads.

Note the contrast in 1 Cor. 3:1, Paul could not speak to them "as to spiritual ones" but "as to fleshly ones". Thus Paul had to use spiritual milk, because they were not able to receive spiritual meat (solid food). The only view that makes sense is both new Christians, and the lost can only receive spiritual milk, but more mature Christians can receive solid food.

 

[agedman]

Hi Scott, I think "men of flesh" are not saved. You seem to think "men of flesh" means the same things as "men in the flesh" with their minds set on fleshly desires. Not how it reads.

Note the contrast in 1 Cor. 3:1, Paul could not speak to them "as to spiritual ones" but "as to fleshly ones". Thus Paul had to use spiritual milk, because they were not able to receive spiritual meat (solid food). The only view that makes sense is both new Christians, and the lost can only receive spiritual milk, but more mature Christians can receive solid food.

No it is NOT the "only view that makes sense." In fact, the view you present doesn't make sense either in the English grammar or the original.

You are taking the word AS in the English and making it ARE - Such does not occur nor is the intent even consistent in the original language.

You are making a stand upon vapor, Van, and you do not even realize it.

Sadly, you have been shown this by many, in multiple threads.

A raw rendering of the verse:
"I, (your) brother (am) unable (to) talk (of the) spiritual (to) simple fleshly minded (in, of) Christ."





As always, folks who are far more scholarly and current in the languages, are welcome to bring correction to this feeble brained one at any time that I present from the original language(s), that I not present a rendering that is not faithful to the the truth of Scriptures.